Cables that cost more than the speakers?

Frap, I agree, but presumably R&D and marketing are a large percentage of overall cost - certainly if you wanted to break into what is a very crowded market. If not, then you or I could re-badge some Belden, slap a $3,000 sticker on it and retire - no such luck methinks.

There is a couple of interesting statements you made and you are close but formed an opinion too soon. You said there are no truly neutral cables out there, there are a couple. You also said that one cable won't work with everything and you are right when talking about the ones that aren't neutral. Use the neutral ones and they not only work in everything but they work best in everything unless using a cable flaw to correct equipment deficiencies. By the way the best interconnect cable I know of in the neutral category is $800 unless balanced and then it's $1300. The $800 will replace Valhalla as an improvement. I always try to point out that the more expensive is not the best.

I find these questions fascinating, I've done the work with a $400,000 array of cables, first forming an opinion of a couple of lines that are the best you can get for your money at every price point.

Many seem to think there is a limit to the cable cost to comonent issue. A great $3000 speaker will sound better with whatever top echelon cable you want because it's a matter of the speaker being able to be judged on what it can do as opposed to what an inferior cable limits it to.

A cable can be looked at as a limiter, the lower quality limits huge amounts of detail, depth, ambience, etc. $25000 speakers won't sound anything like what they can and should sound like if the cables are trashing the sound and poor cables will color and distort the sound. If cables damage and limit the signal being fed into the speakers how can great speakers fix it or make it sound good? No equipment no matter how good it is compensates for cable limitations. Use good cable on decent equipment and it sounds way better.

Trust me when I say that if you want to make a $3000 speaker sound magical it's with great cable, everything follows that. Take a $12000 speaker and choke it down with mediocre wire and there is no way to make it sound good. The $3000 speaker isn't going to perform any better and since it wasn't as good as the higher priced one it will suffer more.

Whatever limitations are there from cable that's it.

>>Whatever limitations are there from cable that's it<<

I'll take my chances with a pair of $12,000 speakers and mediocre cables as opposed to a $3,000 pair of speakers and super cables.

You know what's way stranger is $12,000 speakers and cable that costs a few hundred dollars, that's not strange that's dumb. A speaker cannot reveal detail and resolution that is not there because the cable isn't capable of letting it through.

The nature of cable quality is one of different levels of signal strength loss, it's what it's called in electrical terms. It is exactly that, it is losing detail through loss of signal strength and detail is the first to go since it's the weakest. You can have $100,000 speakers and they will not have the detail that the cable loses. Go the other way and put high caliber audiophile cables on a $3000 speaker and it will perform to the limits of it's components full specs, if the low level resolution is present it will play it. It will have character that the more expensive one doesn't have the chance to show.

The only equation comes down to one of keeping the money put into a perspective in terms of keeping well balanced performance with everything in the system.

I downsized to a set of things I liked from several hundred thousand dollars worth of my stores demo systems. I kept the very best wire I had that went into systems out at $100k. I am using $5000 speakers but there is over $20,000 in wire, two Aluminata power cords and a kaptovator, the full boat. But damn those speakers sound better than anyone has ever had them sound. I can use any speakers alive out to ruthless monsters like Wilson Audio is known to be and it's all good.

I would not ever suggest that anyone take cable out to that level in a modest system but the point is that the equipment can't perform if it doesn't get good wire connections. Money in wire first then equipment and it makes everything better as you go than the other way around. It's guys who have a lot of money in components and speakers that get the most carried away with equipment upgrades, it's because they are looking for the more that they think their system should be doing. If they had done cable right first they would have heard a higher degree of improvement with each component upgrade. There are cables out at the Valhalla category that cost about a fifth of what those do that are equal or so close that it doesn't have to cost silly amounts for the right cable. If you buy expensive speakers make sure you are using them to their ability or way cheaper ones with better cables will be embarassing you. One of the best bi-wire cables I know of is $1100 and I've used them with Watts Puppys.

The focus can't be on the speaker cables, the interconnects have to be brought up in equal balance or great speaker cables will reveal coloration caused by them. It's a balance of performance levels and focusing best quality in the most important spots. The cd to preamp interconnect can be much better than the preamp to amp, in fact it should be the best cable in the system because it handles the weakest but most intact signal in the system. Preserving it goes a long way to getting lots of extra resolution through to the speakers.

Hope that makes logical sense and helps