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How is there Apple Lossless Debate?

Ok, so since I got my 'hi fi' system about a year ago my goal is to get a music server set up, with either a mac mini connected directly to my Bryston Dac, or a Macbook Pro streaming music over Airtunes and an optical connection. After reading all Id read about Apple lossless it seemed there was much debate as to whether or not there was any noticeable loss. I know how most "audiophiles" are and I know a lot of times they/we like to think we hear a difference when we really don't.

So I took it for granted Apple Lossless was just as good as cd and Ive started burning my cds onto my new MBP in AL format. I got my airtunes set up with the optical in to my Bryston Dac and I thought it just didnt sound right. "Must be that USB is better I thought" ... So i connected it through USB too. No difference. But it still didnt sound right. So i popped a cd in to my (make sure you are sitting down) Onkyo DV-SP405 dvd/cd player that I am using as a transport in to my Bryston through a SPDIF connection. WOW. What a difference. It is huge. Much more open. Much more "air". Much more space.

SO.. either I am doing something wrong with my Mac setup or there are some people out there that should just stick to mp3s because if you cant tell the difference between Apple Lossless and a CD through the same set up.. you are wasting youre money on equipment.

Any input is greatly appreciated. Next up I am going to burn a few songs on to my Mac in .wav format and test again.
farjamed
darkj's avatar
darkj
150 posts
 
In my system, Apple Lossless sounds great running over my AppleTV through my processor. I've compared it very closely to my Oppo BDP-83 and really can't notice a significant difference, and the Oppo is no slouch as a transport.

However, it sounds like you're using AirTunes over an Airport Express. I'm 99% sure that when you stream over AirTunes to an Airport Express, the Mac converts to a lossy format on the fly for AirTunes to decode.
kijanki's avatar
kijanki
4,412 posts
 
Darkj -

Airport Express uses native ALAC so it is better to store in ALAC to avoid additional conversion. Stereophile tested Airport Express for bit transparency and it recovers exactly uncompressed data bit-for bit true. They concluded that Airport Express has very low jitter but rather mediocre analog output section. Airport Express has few second buffer and unless you hear dropouts quality should be fine. I use it with Benchmark DAC1 and cannot tell the difference between AE and CDP to Benchmark.

Here is review: http://www.stereophile.com/digitalprocessors/505apple/
magfan
1,583 posts
 
Darkj,
That is a very good question. What DOES happen when you use an AE?
Does the confuser convert everything to say.......MP3@160 than transmit, as some kind of reconstructed full bitstream to an external DA via the AE?
I don't think so. I HOPE that however a song is saved, it gets changed back to a full 44.1 bitstream than transmitted as digits, so the AE is just a 'passthru' device. And since you can make a bit perfect reconstruction of the original tune from Apple Lossless...there you go. That is, if you use the optical. If you use the analogue output where is the DA conversion done...in the AE or back at the confuser?

If anyone really knows, feel free to chime in.
hellofidelity
77 posts
 
Apple uses Apple Lossless to stream all the music data on a Airport network. Kijanki is correct, Apple Lossless and the Airport Express digital output are "bit perfect". It's limited to 16/44, but does it very well.
kijanki's avatar
kijanki
4,412 posts
 
Hellofidelity - it does it very well indeed. 16/44 limitation doesn't bother me since all my music is 16/44. The only problem I know of is that it drops clock during gaps and some DACs are late to sync and mute beginning of the song (Benchmark doesn't do that).
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