James Randi vs. Anjou Pear - once and for all

I stand by what I said: most of this anti-high end stuff is jealousy, pure and simple.

So, I've got around $25k in my system, over a nearly 20 year period. And it's annihilating NEW systems ten times the price? I guess you could say I shun high priced gear and go for quality, quality, quality on the cheap, then modify the snot out of it. THAT'S how to get great sound relatively inexpensively (well, very 'relatively'.) As long as you can hear the difference, that is

Winston,

I don't disagree with your approach. I don't doubt that you have achieved far superior sound than a new $250 K system. However, ordinary folks like me do not always hear these obvious Pear Anjou versus Monster differences and I tend to think of these differences as either extremely subtle or simply not audible. So I think we agree.

I also agree that if the "well-heeled" can afford an extremely expensive cable then good for them. They will have no fear of any lack of quality with a $7000 speaker cable and that may be such a small amount of $ to them that even the peace of mind is worth it. I am not at all for jealously attacking these well to do people. However, I often see people with more invested in cables than major components such as speakers. It is these people that may stand to lose from "cable hyperbole" rather than the well-healed who will no doubt have every SOTA item.

On another note you appear to be one of those who could easily beat Randi's blind test and clearly you believe that you are not unique.

We ALL know this is true, that no two different cable designs sound exactly alike

Therefore it begs the question why Fremer and others do not step up to the plate and collect a million dollars.

David,

I bought the mega-dollar cables after "sighted" tests, and I sold the cables after "blinded" tests. Placebo is a strong sales agent.

I think it takes courage and integrity to admit to being a mere mortal audiophile. I think Mike deserves tremendous kudos too for his forthright manner during his experiment. When you have invested a significant amount of your own money on something, it is surely so much harder to accept that the magnitude of the benefits might be so small as to be negligible. Your experience matches mine in some ways, but in others it is different, as you have tremendous SOTA sources/amplifiers in your system and I don't.

hi slanselm:

2 things:

after some period of time, are you still satisfied with the monster cables ?

the double blind test you conducted (on your own ??) may have been flawed. however, the fact that one can detect a difference between cable does not justify the purchase of either cable.

a better test would be, which cable do you prefer?

assuming a properly designed blind test with a meaningful sample of recordings, what is the result ?

by the way, whatever test you design, replicate several times.

My test involved switching my "reference" phono cable and and my "reference" interconnect. (My speakers are active, I do not use speaker cables.)

Both cables were switched out at the same time(or not). I switched the "reference" Phono with a cheap Monster Reference, and the "reference" interconnect between preamp and active speaker amp with the same Monster reference cable.

I did 10 switches a day over five days. I did not switch the cables myself, and was not told which cables I started with. I was not trying to pick which one I liked best, but I was trying to name which cable were playing. I left the room for about 1.5 minutes exactly while cables were switched or not switched. The minute and half might have been my issue.

The results: I answered right 27 out of 50.

Why did I take a test after purchasing instead of before? Actually, before purchase I did switching myself. The power of marketing, placebo, suggestion, you name it is very prominent in the results, I now think.

I could not be happier that I "failed", by my own standards.

Now others are welcome to point out the flaws in my DBT's but it will go in one ear and out the other. Because what I did learn personally is if their is in fact a difference identifying it reliably is beyond me and MUCH MUCH MUCH more difficult then I had been "marketed" to believe. My feeling is if "I" need a perfectly executed scientific experiment to discern the differences, then I will look elsewhere for system improvements.

Others please respond with your own results not "hyperbole"
I have no vested interest, I am just curious...

I am not trying to shift anyone's mind. I have voted with my own pocket book, both ways to the extreme and have moved on.

This thread has taken a less threatening direction than most of those dealing with the usual "prove it sounds better" versus "I hear one is better" threads. I think this is largely because of Winstonsmith's use of DIY cables and good defense of the importance of achieving accurate sound. But in reality Dlanselm's personal experience really has no impact. Most of us still proceed with using the components and wires we hear as best and can afford.

Personally, I see no benefit with double blind audio tests, but single blind tests are fine. Who cares if the person running the test knows which wire is which? I have participated in several of these with in one case where a Bozak preamp was preferred by several prominent designers of other preamps. But these blind tests all used matched volumes but lengthy listening comparisons. Also none of these were seen as anything more than entertainment. I am certain no one ran out and bought a Bozak.

I have also participated in short duration same/different DBTs. I know the confusion that comes with these tests. I certainly found them curious and hypothesized why the strange results. Then I realized that the tests must invalidly capture what we mean by sounding different, especially in one where most of us then compared the two amps involved still in a blind comparison but with longer listening comparisons and the opportunity to go back and forth between them. We all now preferred one of the amps. To me this is a more valid comparison and certainly yielded different results.

Again, all of this is largely entertainment of little relevance to a buying decisions. Dlanselm obviously did change his mind as a result, but I doubt many of us would. I certainly found no interest in buying the Bozak although I did seek it out several times at audio stores. I also did not buy any of the other preamps in the test.

Why there is this constant debate about DBTs perplexes me. Frankly, I have more trust in my ears than I have in others.

Shadorne-

Thanks for such a nice post. It is most appreciated, especially your kind words. And please let me apologize for being somewhat forceful in my approach previously. I was a little too harsh here and there, and that is simply unacceptable. Again, I apologize. This apology also certainly extends to Dlanselm for his sharing something not everyone would. Thank you for that!

'Goners are really awesome folks who work together to share and grow this great hobby of ours. We should be supportive of one another, or at least exceptionally gentle in our criticisms. I failed that standard miserably by my postings, which could have been much nicer in tone. Forgive me, all of you. I won't let that happen again.

As for your comments, Shadorne, regarding relatively impecuneous folks who may be taken advantage of by slick marketing and superb salesmanship at the dealer, I share your sadness at someone being taken advantage of. But we are grown ups and should take responsibilty for our actions. Nevertheless, a part of me completely agrees with you about how this can be somewhat tragic when folks are taken advantage of in this way. But as long as they are happy with the outcome and not being legally defrauded, I say let them have their fun, even if the 'Emperor has no clothes'. Lots of people believe stuff with all their hearts that I cannot agree with, and for which there is no scientific evidence. Those shows about 'Ghost Hunters' are particularly annoying.

But we live a wonderful, fully FREE country, the best in the world IMHO(despite some recent slip-ups), and it is this freedom, the freedom to even act silly and foolishly, that makes this country so damned GREAT!

So let's celebrate together in this fabulous forum such as we have here in the 'Gon. Let's support one another, and most respectfully agree to disagree when contentions that are mutually inconsistent pop up here and there. I want EVERYONE to get great sound, and to help us get there, there's more than enough good audio gear and opinions to go around, as far as I'm concerned. And by freely sharing our opinions and experiences we enrich the entire community of audiophiles, and thereby help advance the state of the art, which is in everyone's best interest.

So thanks again, Shadorne and everyone else, for your posts. They are thoughtful and enriching. I appreciate them.

PS-
Same to Tbg, BTW. Always thoughtful and rational, your posts illuminate and educate. In fact, thanks to all you 'Goners, because the community here is GREAT! We all deserve a little pat on the back for helping to make it that way!

HAPPY HOLIDAYS & HAPPY LISTENING!!