directional cables?

Herman, I'm inspired to continue just a bit longer by this comment:

Almarg: Are you saying that they drift back and forth over a very short distance within the cable, as I indicated in my post yesterday? Meaning that a specific electron near the source end of the cable will never emerge from the other end of the cable (assuming there is no dc offset present)?

Simply_Q: Yes.

My point has been that whenever there is any current flow (in this particular context), there must be a net drift of electrons. It matters not that the drift may alternate direction over time. To say there is no drift is to say there is no current.

Simply_Q, my statement, to which you agreed, implies that there is no "net" drift, just a drift back and forth over some small distance, the location of which remains essentially unchanged for any given electron.

Can the word "net" be deleted from your statement without changing the meaning you intended? Is so, I think we are all in agreement. If not, then the impasse remains and I shall cease and desist.

Best regards,
-- Al

Herman

He is convinced in AC that there is a net flow of electrons from source to load.

I never said any such thing. Please don't put words in my mouth.

Mr, Q, has anybody come to your defense? No they have not. Why? You are wrong.....

No one coming to the defense of an argument proves the argument wrong? What sort of twisted logic is that?

UH, yes you did. That has been the crux of the disagreement. Please go back and read through the thread and you will find this exchange.

Me.......Because the electrons do not flow in a power distribution system.

You.......Yes, they do. There would be no power distributed if they did not.

Me........They do not flow along the wire like water flows in a hose.

You.......They do indeed.

.

Almarg

Simply_Q, my statement, to which you agreed, implies that there is no "net" drift, just a drift back and forth over some small distance, the location of which remains essentially unchanged for any given electron.

To understand why I use the term "net," you need to understand why I use it with the term "drift."

"Drift" is used to distinguish from "movement." With no current flowing there is still movement. The electrons in the wire are moving about randomly in all directions near their Fermi velocity. And at any given point, the number of electrons crossing in one direction will generally be the same as the number of electrons crossing in the opposite direction.

However if you apply an electric field, in addition to moving about at their Fermi velocity, the electrons will now take on a small velocity in the direction of the applied field. This is the drift velocity. And as a consequence, the number of electrons crossing that given point in one direction will now be greater than the number of electrons crossing in the opposite direction.

In other words, there is a net drift in that direction.

So, as long as there is current flowing, be it DC or AC, there will always be a net drift of electrons, because even if the direction of current changes alternately from one direction to the other, there will always be more electrons crossing that given point in one direction than the other.

Does this make it more clear where I'm coming from?

Herman

UH, yes you did. That has been the crux of the disagreement. Please go back and read through the thread and you will find this exchange.

Me.......Because the electrons do not flow in a power distribution system.

You.......Yes, they do. There would be no power distributed if they did not.

Me........They do not flow along the wire like water flows in a hose.

You.......They do indeed.

That is NOT saying that an electron at the power plant arrives at my computer monitor.

You seem to be laboring under the notion that "flow" can only be in one direction. But there is flow regardless of direction or whether or not that direction alternately changes.

If there is no "flow" of electrons, there is no current. No current, no power. Simple as that.