Do powercords make a difference in sound?

Douglas - Thank you for your thoughtful and kind response. It's difficult to advocate a view in the face of opposition while remaining a gentleman. Thank you for doing that.

I have tested enough sets of cables to determine a correlation between the build of cables and the expected sonic result… EVERY cable set I have ever used (Jena Labs, Magnan Cables, Tara Labs, MIT, Wireworld, Clarity Cables - to name some of those reviewed) and others I experimented with on my own inclduing XLO, Audioquest, Harmonic Technology and others - heard in sets always carried consistent sonic attributes to whatever gear they were connected.

This observation is actually easier for me to believe than some of the other observations that have been made on this thread, and it highlights the need to distinguish the following two views…

(1) SETS of power cables have consistent audible characteristics across different SYSTEMS.

(2) INDIVIDUAL power cables have consistent audible characteristics across different COMPONENTS within the same system.

For whatever reason, (1) is easier for me to believe than (2). Maybe that is nothing more than a prejudice on my part.

It’s clear from the passage I quoted above that, in your experience, (1) is true. I am interested to hear whether, in your experience, (2) is also true. In other words…

Let’s say you put a new power cable on your amp and notice that the bass has become rolled off, or bloated, or less pitch defined, or whatever. Would you then expect that power cable to have the SAME effect on the system when placed on the preamp or the source?

bc

hi byron:

i believe if you change the amp using the same cord, the roll off may disappear. if it doesn't, it suggests the cord may have a problem. you can't know what is causing the roll off until you co vary the power cord and amp.

a thorough logical analysis is required when you have two variables to look at.

Bryan, some great thoughts which show you are open-minded about all of this as well as able to think critically.

Your question in regard to the distinction between systems and components is a good one. My answer is that in general, yes, a specific cord does retain its properties no matter the component it is attached to. It will be influenced differently by the component, but it will still exhibit the same characteristics which result because of its design/construction. Such a conclusion becomes evident when comparing entire sets of cables. As one PC at a time is swapped out the effect of it is heard across the sound of the system. Conducting the incremental testing twice, once with each set of cables, shows clearly what the influence of the particular brand will be.

You will not get the identical result when you move the PC from the amp to the pre or source; there will be fine gradations, or permutations, of a similar sound. However, consistently, when compared individually to a different PC put through the same paces, yes the characteristics of that power cord will remain the same. The alternative PC will also retain its characteristics as it is put on amp, pre, or source.

However, since doing so will alter the sound it becomes impossible for a person who has mixed cords to realize this! That is why I insist that the only way to determine that cables carry their particular character to all components is by enlisting an entire suite of them and comparing to a different suite of cables.

Regarding your specific question: Let’s say you put a new power cable on your amp and notice that the bass has become rolled off, or bloated, or less pitch defined, or whatever. Would you then expect that power cable to have the SAME effect on the system when placed on the preamp or the source?

The answer is no one knows if it will or will not if a mixed set of cables is being used, i.e. if that particular power cable is swapped with the one on the pre/source. I have found the result of mixed cables swapping to be fairly unpredictable. If, however, an entire set of cables is being used and the noted effect of a particular cable is a roll off of bass, and you have noted this on several components such as tube amps/SS amps, sources, preamps, then yes, you might expect more of the same when additional cables are inserted.

The effect of a cable is compounded when additional ones of the same brand/type are inserted. That also has been consistent in my casual testing over the years. If a cable rolls off the spectrum on the ends, it becomes more evident that it is doing so the more pieces are added to the rig. Conversely, if a cable brings additional definition, adding more of them will bring increased definition.

My position is that cables are not "captive" (pun!) sonically to the component which they are servicing, that is they do not entirely take on the character of that component. There is a particular sonic "flavor" which travels with them to whatever component is being serviced.
I have confirmed this using both different brands of cables and different models of the same brand of cables, be they PC, IC or SC, as well as digital coax.

I have concluded the reason audiophiles do not discover such things is that typically they do not conduct thorough enough investigation through comparisons and/or have been using mixed cables, which negates the entire excercise.

Hi Byron, I thought I was done here but as you surmised that was before I saw your questions, which derserve to be answered. Unfortunately I have been otherwise occupied and will continue to be for a while. Please give me a chance to read and digest what has been posted since and I will return when I am able to respond further.

I got to say there is some fascinating and thought provoking discussion here from all camps! And how eloquent and succinct many of you are in presenting your case.

I have a few thoughts;

1. I find myself leaning toward the cables sound will be influenced by all the variables it encounters. Even though certain construction qualities may have a basic quantifiable effect on the sound I think the myriad other interactions the cable encounters will alter those characteristics significantly.

2. So, I think the cable will sound different from system to system. I even wonder if the sonic qualities would vary at time of day? After all we all have read or experienced "my system sounds better at night?" Purportedly this is attributable to cleaner, less noisy power being supplied to the household. So couldn't it stand to reason the characteristics attributed to the cable may in fact be something else? Even change throughout the day? Same could be said of all the components in a system I suppose.

3. Also if the cable was changed from system to system, and differing brands of cable were used in these systems, couldn't that effect said characteristics? I mean does'nt the change of a component and its reaction to the rest of the system modify the sound?

4. If all these variables effect a single cable, is it not possible it would do the same for complete sets of cables? Although perhaps to a lesser degree. I have no experience experimenting with this but it stands to reason that complete sets of cables by a manufacturer in a system could yield a more cohesive, predictable end product. Being that the cable set is of the same construction throughout therefore sharing the same characteristics.

5. I wonder, if a person experiences or expects certain attributes from a product, wouldn't they be inclined to expect it wherever it may be installed? Especially if it is not a blind test? Is this not an argument made by some in the trade mags?

6. I agree that if a difference made by a product is not readily apparent, then it may be non-existent or so minute that it is not worth the effort.

I am be no means an expert. But have easily heard differences in systems and have to believe that many things influence those differences. Including interactions of components, time of day, enviornment, power supplied, etc.

I enjoy music and listening to it reproduced well. I haven't spent the time nor have the resources to swap out components to ascertain its effect on the sound. Hell my system cost me about 2/3s of what Bryon has in cables, although retailed for more.

Neither am I in a position to offer arguments supporting any side, objective or subjective. But I do find the positions offered by Al, Bryon and others the ones I find most reasonable and agreeable to me.

I am not saying the others are mistaken, one thing I've learned is we all hear things differently, real or perceived. And will continue to do so. Thats what makes this so interesting. And even can teach one something or open our eyes to other trains of thought.

These are just opinions on my part, right or wrong. I look forward to continued debate.

Again, what a great thread.

Best,

Dave