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DAC woes - what to do

Greetings,
Oh Boy!!! Another "what should I buy" thread! Yippee!!!
Seriously though... looking for some personal experience and potential recommendations.
Ive been looking for a new CD player recently, preferably in the <$1000 range.
I recently ended up buying a Rega DAC. Actually, I bought an apollo-r at first, but it was possessed by demons and wouldnt play most of my CD's (even new, non-scratched ones.) So, I exchanged it for the DAC instead.
I was lured into the Rega by its very unique sound. Its beefy but articulate and with good definition...or so I thought upon initial comparisons (I compared it with 6 different players in my home system, as well as many others at the shop.)
But, as it breaks-in, the "beef" is turning to "bloat" and the enchantment is waning. Its too "soft" up top to balance the low-end emphasis. Not to mention that one of the toslink connector "shutters" broke off inside the receiver on first attempt to plug it up, and is unusable now. And, the automuting pops/hisses when the transport is powered on (the demo DAC didnt do this.) So, Im already waiting for the replacement to come in. So now is the time to return it, if Im going to.
Anway, back on track... I admit, I got "sucked in" by the so-called "analog" sound, and I did enjoy it for a while. There is something unique about this Rega. The individual instruments are quite articulate, and the soundstage is enormous. But what Ive noticed that that, while the instruments are individually defined, they tend to get "lost" in the vast stage. Its very difficult to place them in relation to each other.
For example, I listen to mostly choir/choral, chamber and full orchestral works. I was originally enchanted to actually hear additional voices from music Ive heard 1000x before. It was very cool. And, the noise floor is extremely low...the instruments seem to come out of a black hole. Its almost eery, especially with dark arrangements. But more and more, especially with "busy," intricate voices, they've begun to "smear," for lack of a better word.
For the "record" (another pun,) I have a halo p7 pre-amp, parasound hca 1500 amp and paradigm studio 20 v5's (with a hsu sub.) Not hi-fi for many, but its a very "honest" sounding system, which is my intent.
I keep thinking back to this peachtree DAC I auditioned. It had better definition and "air" than the Rega (yes, I A/B'd them,) but the Rega destroyed it in the lower frequency response, and was therefore more impressive at the time.
So, Im afraid the Rega has to go back. Not counting the sound, Im a bit concerned about long time reliability (Im 0 for 2 right now with their reliability... not great.)
Im also afraid Im going to have to admit that I like a "digital" sound, as much as people seem to be afraid to admit that. I dont like analog bloom and "laid back" presentation, although I realize a lot of people do, and thats great. And Im convinced there is something out there near my price range that combines the "beef" of the Rega with the "sweet" and definition/clarity of the peachtree.
I dont have any music fidelity dealers here in Atlanta, so Im considering buying an M1 on a hunch. I hate to judge by reviews, but it seems the might be the "ticket" in this price range. Or maybe the Benchmark DAC 1, but again, I dont have any dealers locally to easily hear one.
So, in summary... I want Rega soundstage width, but with a tighter, less accentuated mids and lows, and brighter, crisper highs. Does anyone have any recommendations in the $1k range?
BTW, Im open to single-box players, but Ive listened to a ton lately, and I dont think Im going to find one with as good of an analog output section as many of the DAC's. That seems to be the "ticket" to the magic of the external DAC.
And for the record, I did listen to one much more expensive model, the NAD M51. I only listed to it at the store, and it seemed too bright compared a/b with the Rega, but that might actually be the ticket, especially after break-in. Ill probably demo it at home to compare before I return the Rega.
Again, I might consider the NAD or something like a Bryston BDA-1 at around $2k, but Id prefer to stay around half that.
Anyway, thanks in advance for any input.
lightspeed240
lightspeed240 OP
18 posts
 
Thanks for the responses, everyone. It seems there is somewhat of a consensus on the Benchmark, and then the Schiit.
A few comments...
Roxy...Ive seen pics of the audio note, but I havent seen one or heard one. Ill respond on a separate post on that one.
Kijanki - good feedback on the "cool" sound. Im glad Im not the only one who likes that. And its good the designer had that in-mind. Also, I have studio's, but they are v5's. My previous v2's were too bright IMO, but the v5's are remarkably different. But they are so articulate...
OK, so here is where Im going to loose it, if Im not careful...but I must get this out... If I buy a Schiit product, will that make me a Schiit-head?
Hopefully you see the humor in that.
But all joking aside...I was actually reading about those, and they have amazing design specs for that price... AKM DAC? Nice! No upsampling is also preferable, IMO, although I realize upsampling and conversion the new trend. It appears to have a discrete output stages also, with separate analog and digital power supplies? I have to wonder how they got all the goodness in there at that price (or why everyone else overcharges so much...)
BTW, Do the Schiit and the benchmark remember the last source played when they are power-cycled?

Has anyone A-B'd a Schitt and a Rega? Any thoughts?

I dont desire USB, and it seems that the Schiit without USB is only $350? Thats quite a value. It seems too good to be true...
roxy54's avatar
roxy54
8,180 posts
 
Beewax,
I think that your advice was ridiculous.
lightspeed240 OP
18 posts
 
OK, so this is a tangent, but I did want to address the Audio Note. Im not sure which one you have, but from what Ive read and seen, that is how I would build a DAC. If it didnt have valve outputs, I think it would be about perfect. And yes, this is preference and Im not knocking your choice.
From my perspective, I would expect the best sounding PCM reproduction would come from a 16 bit DAC, with no oversampling and no digital filtering. If I didnt dislike tubes, Id buy a lampizator setup...no questions. Its the purest design, IMO. But I dont want to deal with tubes.
If the source is defined by 16 bits, then thats the most "sound data" youre going to be able to get out of each sample. If you effectively reproduce the waveforms, then there is no real need for processing or filtering, except maybe a brick-wall around 16 khz. Yes, there are crappy recordings out there with a lot of emphasized high-end "glare..." So just dont buy those :)

OK, Im going to stop now and not get on my soapbox about this upsampling/upconverting trend for 16/44.1, or Ill just get frustrated.

I actually like the PCM -> PWM conversion idea better, like the NAD m51, if youre going to process it so heavily, as I think it would reduce the filtering requirements. So Im surprised I didnt like it more at the shop. I think I need to hear it at my house.

Anyway, this got long. Apologies for the quasi-rant ;)
lightspeed240 OP
18 posts
 
LOL @ Roxy's last post.

People have their own opinions, thats fine.

IMO, the "magic" is still in the analog output section. I dont think a 32 bit sabre can decode 16 bit PCM any better or more accurately than a TDA1541 can. If you dont have errors, you dont need all that digital "headroom." For video processing, I can see some possible benefit due to the complexity, but if you dont have errors in your microcode, you dont need overhead in a DAC (IMO.)
chayro
3,029 posts
 
You want expensive sound, but only want to spend $1K? It doesn't work. No matter what anyone tells you about the latest cheap-dac wonder. Yes, you can buy some very decent stuff for $1K, but you had a good 1K dac and you weren't satisfied - Therein lies the problem. I used to think that a $1500 CD player was the best there was. Until I heard a unit that sold for $3K and realized there is a big difference as you move up. If you can hear it. If you can't, you're an idiot if you spend more money. So the short of it is, I would raise your budget to $3500 or so and look into something better. That will require some research on your part, but at least you won't be just trading one set of faults for another. I'm sure there are some (or many) that will poo-poo this advice and keep telling you how DAC technology has improved so much and so forth. You can keep telling yourself that there's a perfect $1K DAC out there. Maybe. You've tried the cheaper ones and now it's time to break some eggs. At least that's what I think. Good luck.
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