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DAC woes - what to do

Greetings,
Oh Boy!!! Another "what should I buy" thread! Yippee!!!
Seriously though... looking for some personal experience and potential recommendations.
Ive been looking for a new CD player recently, preferably in the <$1000 range.
I recently ended up buying a Rega DAC. Actually, I bought an apollo-r at first, but it was possessed by demons and wouldnt play most of my CD's (even new, non-scratched ones.) So, I exchanged it for the DAC instead.
I was lured into the Rega by its very unique sound. Its beefy but articulate and with good definition...or so I thought upon initial comparisons (I compared it with 6 different players in my home system, as well as many others at the shop.)
But, as it breaks-in, the "beef" is turning to "bloat" and the enchantment is waning. Its too "soft" up top to balance the low-end emphasis. Not to mention that one of the toslink connector "shutters" broke off inside the receiver on first attempt to plug it up, and is unusable now. And, the automuting pops/hisses when the transport is powered on (the demo DAC didnt do this.) So, Im already waiting for the replacement to come in. So now is the time to return it, if Im going to.
Anway, back on track... I admit, I got "sucked in" by the so-called "analog" sound, and I did enjoy it for a while. There is something unique about this Rega. The individual instruments are quite articulate, and the soundstage is enormous. But what Ive noticed that that, while the instruments are individually defined, they tend to get "lost" in the vast stage. Its very difficult to place them in relation to each other.
For example, I listen to mostly choir/choral, chamber and full orchestral works. I was originally enchanted to actually hear additional voices from music Ive heard 1000x before. It was very cool. And, the noise floor is extremely low...the instruments seem to come out of a black hole. Its almost eery, especially with dark arrangements. But more and more, especially with "busy," intricate voices, they've begun to "smear," for lack of a better word.
For the "record" (another pun,) I have a halo p7 pre-amp, parasound hca 1500 amp and paradigm studio 20 v5's (with a hsu sub.) Not hi-fi for many, but its a very "honest" sounding system, which is my intent.
I keep thinking back to this peachtree DAC I auditioned. It had better definition and "air" than the Rega (yes, I A/B'd them,) but the Rega destroyed it in the lower frequency response, and was therefore more impressive at the time.
So, Im afraid the Rega has to go back. Not counting the sound, Im a bit concerned about long time reliability (Im 0 for 2 right now with their reliability... not great.)
Im also afraid Im going to have to admit that I like a "digital" sound, as much as people seem to be afraid to admit that. I dont like analog bloom and "laid back" presentation, although I realize a lot of people do, and thats great. And Im convinced there is something out there near my price range that combines the "beef" of the Rega with the "sweet" and definition/clarity of the peachtree.
I dont have any music fidelity dealers here in Atlanta, so Im considering buying an M1 on a hunch. I hate to judge by reviews, but it seems the might be the "ticket" in this price range. Or maybe the Benchmark DAC 1, but again, I dont have any dealers locally to easily hear one.
So, in summary... I want Rega soundstage width, but with a tighter, less accentuated mids and lows, and brighter, crisper highs. Does anyone have any recommendations in the $1k range?
BTW, Im open to single-box players, but Ive listened to a ton lately, and I dont think Im going to find one with as good of an analog output section as many of the DAC's. That seems to be the "ticket" to the magic of the external DAC.
And for the record, I did listen to one much more expensive model, the NAD M51. I only listed to it at the store, and it seemed too bright compared a/b with the Rega, but that might actually be the ticket, especially after break-in. Ill probably demo it at home to compare before I return the Rega.
Again, I might consider the NAD or something like a Bryston BDA-1 at around $2k, but Id prefer to stay around half that.
Anyway, thanks in advance for any input.
lightspeed240
lightspeed240 OP
18 posts
 
A couple of other comments (my last post got seriously bloated.)
Timrhu... I looked at the nuwave reviews online, and it did seem nice. Unfortunately, I do have a full-time job, and I just dont have the time to review all the good ones. Same for the woo audio... Seems great. But, after comparing the results, it seems the only coherent impression across different reviewers and different dac's is that the benchmark is cold/analytical/revealing (although these dont need to be mutually inclusive.) Most other dac reviews are all over the place. I read some people calling the rega "neutral" and "bright," but thats the opposite of my impression. Its totally subjective. But every single review and post on here says the benchmark is bright and revealing. When the cops and the crooks both agree on something...you might at least listen and consider :)

Loftarasa.. Do you use your m51 directly into a power amp? The thing that interests me most about the m51 is the digital volume for all inputs. I would have to think that it doesnt get any better than running that into a power amp directly. I have a rotel and another parasound amp (actually, 3 more parsounds) in the closet, so I was starting to think running the m51 into one of them for a totally separate 2 channel rig. (right now, my AV pre-pro does pass-through on the halo for multichannel, to share the bigger parasound.)

Obviously, the m51 is the king of processing...also the polar opposite of what I *think* I want, but if youre going to process it, going to PWM is the way to do it. Ive long wondering why that wasnt done, as it should eliminate all digital filter-related ringing. But why not just add a DSD receiver too, if ou have the basics of the processing there? Seemed a bit short-sighted. When I A/B'd it with the rega at the shop, it was too "bright." But now, it seems that my bias was skewed, and the rega was probably too "dark" in comparison. It may be just right.
What do you think about the m51 sound?

BTW, Im hesitant to buy a used DAC, as they are more delicate than power amps, which I do buy used if I can find one I want. But I appreciate the information on the used ones.

Wisnon... I really dig the lampizators. Like the audio note, i think the designs are simple and brilliant. But, as stated, I fear the additional compulsion that tubes will bring me.

Richardfinegold...we have very close tastes, it seems. I always liked B&W's. Both times I went down to audition a pair, I ended up with paradigms. Not sure why...something about paradigm studios I like. The new v5's especially. But I think the B&W's are great too.

Bcgator... dont take offense on the dac it. But there wasnt any comparison from around 1k down. There was another guy there who was in another room, and he knew I was A/B'ing them. Everytime Id switch them, I could hear him say "peachtree" or "rega" from outside. He was right every time. But as I said, it was super nice in the top end.

Finally... Dragon1952 (apologies for not responding to all...Ive been typing all day LOL, but I appreciate all the input.)
You are 100% correct. I re-positioned my mains and my sub when I added the rega. I had to. My room is crappy already, and it needs treatment badly (thats the next purchase after this...absorbers for the corners.) The extra low-end of the rega was making my already terrible standing-wave problem worse. And my paradigms are reflex ported, so positioning them in this room was never easy anyway.
erikminer
433 posts
 
Here's an idea.. Look for a nice used PS Audio PWD MKI .. The mark one's are going for cheap.. Then try and find someone who's upgrading to the new PSA Directstream from a MKII and try and buy the MKII guts.. you'll end up with a PWD MKII for about 1300.00 or there are a few PWD MKII that I've seen going for about 1600-$1900.00
lightspeed240 OP
18 posts
 
Erikminer - I just read about the direct stream DAC. Looks impressive. It appears to work much like the m51 though...although it also appears to process DSD...
What makes it 3x the price I wonder?
As with the m51, I think that conversion should eliminate filtering ring or aliasing.
Pretty cool, but out of my price range. Im hesitant to buy a used "anything with a chip..." Makes me wonder why people are getting rid of them... I know there are a lot of good used deals; Im just a skeptic sometimes.
lightspeed240 OP
18 posts
 
I just thought of something... If I buy a bryston for this shoot-out, Ill have over $5k in dacs laying around. Yes, all but one will be returned (maybe keep 2...for the price, I may keep the parasound zdac for a nice headphone setup, regardless.)
For this money, Im getting closer to a Gryphon scorpio. I might as well just get that at this point, although it does all the processing voodoo :) LOL
roxy54's avatar
roxy54
7,756 posts
 
Lightspeed240,
I was at work late this afternoon when I saw your post. I wasn't trying to be unkind to Beewax, but the statement he made just seemed so absurd.
Regarding your remarks concerning Audio Note, I owned a factory Audio Note 1x (it was the lowest model in the lineup at the time which (for my taste) showed the door to what was at that time the best Cary Audio CD player, using the Cary's transport.
This humble version used a couple of subminiature itty bitty tubes that were soldered on to the circuit board. Anyway, I was sold on the sound of the non oversampling tube business, although that one did have a digital filter I believe which they have since done away with. I used that DAC constantly for 10 years without ever having any issues whatsoever.
Earlier this year, I decided to try the Audio Note Kits DAC 2.1. I had it professionally built by their sanctioned assembler, Pete Fulton. My upgrades were Duelund VSF output capacitors, and I splurged a little on a matched pair of Telefunken NOS 6922s, and a Bendix tube that was recommended by them (can't remember the number...)
Anyway, for me it is just about heaven. I loved the old one, but knew it could be better, I just had no idea of how much better. I can't even imagine what the level 4 with C-core transformers sounds like.
As far as your concern about the tubes, I was the same way, but these are not stressed in this application, and they last for a long time.
I am sure that the Lampizator and several others that keep it simple are steps beyond what I have, but this one gives me the kind of musical satisfaction that makes me feel lucky rather than envious.
It's also worth mentioning that with Audio Note Kits, you get the Audio Note philosophy and sound and save a great deal of money, and their service is just great. They are really a sort of hidden treasure.
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