bat vk 60 vs rogue mono 120s

Hello,

I have owned the BAT VK-60 a few times (the same one). It had revision C boards. The amp was a cool looking and ok sounding but sounded very bright with various preamps (ARC LS-22, BAT VK-40, etc.) My biggest problem with BAT is the company. What sort of company makes revisions A-F on the an amp in less than 3 years? They wanted about $4500 to bring my rev. C amp up to the VK-60SE. What a deal! I ditched the amp. I am now using a Kora Galaxy (Sweet) and the Rogue Audio 99 preamp (Freakin incredible). I just ordered the phono board for it. I would say it is a keeper. Read the reviews on www.audioreview.com. Rogue gear may not look as polished as some but the engineering and sound quality are top notch. The guys at Rogue are very helpful and can help a lot with tube rolling and such if you are interested in that. I wish I could say if the 120's are better than the BAT VK-60 or 60's. I imagine that they are. What I can say is that as companies go I would rather deal with a company that has sound design ideals up front than a bunch of tinkerers. VK and the gang are applying the same revision ideals to audio gear as they did in the computer business (HP). As a computer geek I understand this. As an Audio Geek I detest this approach. Sorry. I did not mean to make this a diatribe against BAT. My opinion..go for the Rogue and be happy.

Catman may have an axe to grind, but he should get the facts correct before launching into his "diatribe". At any rate, in his "rant" about BAT let me say that he is first, not comparing apples to apples. A VK 60 or VK 60 SE is not the same as a pair of Rogue 120's...heck, they're not the same amp in the BAT product line. Check out the specs and get back to us. Second, the costs quoted are not accurate numbers, and bringing a rev.C board up to the latest, as we all know, can be costly. Third, and most importantly, the VK 60 SE is a completely different amp, more akin to the new VK 75, which uses the 6H30 SuperTube also...not exactly a "board upgrade". The VK 60 SE, which is still available as a special order product, is a more costly product, virtually rebuilding the entire amp in the process...therefore, the comments about upgrading to stay current are not accurate, as you can upgrade, or you may move up to a SE edition of the amp. The VK 60 was introduced at the 1995 CES, it had a production run of 5+ years, before being upgraded so much that it evolved into a new amp altogether, hence, the new VK 75. Rev. circuit board changes are not the issue...it's the ability (or lack of) to move from a standard issue VK 60 to the SE edition which has Catman miffed. Do your homework and audition both amps if possible, but let me tell you, the old adage holds true here: "God is in the details." Check out the feedback on various websites, industry reviews, continuous class A recommendations, white papers on both amps and listen for yourself...Mark O'brian is no Victor Khomenko...and don't get me started on the virtues of the VK 60M, 120 watt monoblock amps that smoke the Rogue 120's...(there's another version of the VK 60 Catman forgot to mention.)

Sterling.have you heard the Rogue 120 in the same system as the BAT.If you have not you are not in a position to say it smokes the other.
Since the BAT costs 2300.00 more it bloody well should.You can buy a used Rogue 120 for less than the cost differential.
I have not heard the BAT so I cant comment.
Also your not in a position to comment on Mark O,brien.I have dealt with few people of his class and integrity.

Here is the e-mail from VK. I really have nothing against VK and BAT but the way they do business. I like the Guano gear but as an EE type I get confused (pissed) when someone makes 6 (now 7) modifications to the board in 5 years. In the mini computer business it was not unheard of to have PCB's with 40-60 revisions on them. Most of those revisions were necessary to run new versions of ucode and operating revisions. In this case we are talking about a very old art that you either know or you don't (tube circuits). As far as Mark O'Brian I think he seems to know this art if he designed the Rogue 99. For $2400 or less you can have one of the most musical preamps I have ever heard. It is a pefect match for the Kora Galaxy. Well I am way off subject here. I really don't know if the Magnum 120's sound better than the BAT's. Here is the e-mail from VK about the cost of a version C to VK-60 rev.F and VK-60SE. Add them together to get to the SE. I stand corrected. He wanted $4750 not $4500.

Dear Sherman,

The VK-60SE upgrade cost for that unit will be $3000 plus $1750 for newere
PC boards.

Sincerely,

Victor Khomenko

Hi Catman, I think you are way off the mark on your comments on BAT and the fine people who work there. I think it's a tribute to BAT that since 1995 they made many improvement upgrades to the VK60 over the years and the retail price for a VK60 stayed the same. Sterling is correct that the VK60se and 75se are completely different products then the standard VK60 and VK75. I can't comment on the sonic differences of how the Rogue compares to the VK60 but I can tell you how the VK mono 60's to my ears walked all over an ARCVT200 as well as many other highly regarded amps that I've auditioned. Please make the effort to compare the amps for yourself. I'm sure the BAT will more than hold its own against any others at any price. As far as customer service goes BAT has been unparallel in my experience! Regards, Tom