bat vk 60 vs rogue mono 120s

Here is the e-mail from VK. I really have nothing against VK and BAT but the way they do business. I like the Guano gear but as an EE type I get confused (pissed) when someone makes 6 (now 7) modifications to the board in 5 years. In the mini computer business it was not unheard of to have PCB's with 40-60 revisions on them. Most of those revisions were necessary to run new versions of ucode and operating revisions. In this case we are talking about a very old art that you either know or you don't (tube circuits). As far as Mark O'Brian I think he seems to know this art if he designed the Rogue 99. For $2400 or less you can have one of the most musical preamps I have ever heard. It is a pefect match for the Kora Galaxy. Well I am way off subject here. I really don't know if the Magnum 120's sound better than the BAT's. Here is the e-mail from VK about the cost of a version C to VK-60 rev.F and VK-60SE. Add them together to get to the SE. I stand corrected. He wanted $4750 not $4500.

Dear Sherman,

The VK-60SE upgrade cost for that unit will be $3000 plus $1750 for newere
PC boards.

Sincerely,

Victor Khomenko

Hi Catman, I think you are way off the mark on your comments on BAT and the fine people who work there. I think it's a tribute to BAT that since 1995 they made many improvement upgrades to the VK60 over the years and the retail price for a VK60 stayed the same. Sterling is correct that the VK60se and 75se are completely different products then the standard VK60 and VK75. I can't comment on the sonic differences of how the Rogue compares to the VK60 but I can tell you how the VK mono 60's to my ears walked all over an ARCVT200 as well as many other highly regarded amps that I've auditioned. Please make the effort to compare the amps for yourself. I'm sure the BAT will more than hold its own against any others at any price. As far as customer service goes BAT has been unparallel in my experience! Regards, Tom

Ok. One last attempt here to get my point across and then I will be quiet. Regardless of how nice people are if you bought an amp for say $4500 and then 3 to 5 years later they had an upgrade for the amp. You inquired about it, and they told you it would cost you $4750 to upgrade it. What would you think? There is something called customer loyalty and I don't think that this sort of pricing model exhibits customer loyalty. This sort of mentality is more the norm when we are talking about business machines that you depreciate and make money with. These are toys. I am sorry but this just hit a nerve with me. I could be all wet here. Ok I am done. I will go on my way with my Rogue Kora combo. Both are excellent values and can be had for about the same price as the VK60 SE upgrade.

I must say that these attacks on BAT are a bit much. One buys an amp from a manufacturer that one thinks sounds great(why else would one buy it?), and then the manufacturer sees fit to upgrade. So what? That manufacturer isn't forcing you to pay for that upgrade. Those who have a gripe here, are those who feel somehow left out or cheated if they don't have the latest and the greatest. I am now auditioning a pair of early production VK60s and while I don't think them perfect, I do think they are excellent sounding amps by any measure. As far as the BAT v Rogue comparison is concerned. I auditioned a pair of Rogue 120s in my system last year and they were pretty good, but in my opinion not in the same league as the BATs. In fairness, the Rogues are alot less money though. It is entirely possible however that someone else, with a different system may prefer the Rogues. Different strokes. Oh, I also own a BAT D5, have for two years now, so I'm quite familiar with their customer service which I've found to be quite good.

Some clarification:
I know both Mark O'Brien and Victor khomenko personally, and I am not comparing their personality or moral character, but as engineers who are measured by their success with their product. I am in a position to make a comment, especially one which relates to the fruits of their labors...namely, these amps. Next, I have owned two pair of Rogue M120s, the VK 500, VK 60, Used in the same system, with a Wadia front end, Aerial, Martin Logan and Magnapan speakers and all Nordost SPM and Quattro fil...I can tell you the differences. Yes, the BAT is more money, but you get what you pay for and in the case of BAT, that means excellent customer support, new tubes overnight, a great warranty and a low failure rate throughout the life of the product and the product line. When was the last time you checked with Madrigal Labs for a Levinson upgrade? How about Krell? Jeff Rowland?...Think about it: a ten year old piece of gear which you have derived much pleasure from, can be upgraded, not become obsolete, outdated, discontinued... The original Wadia D/A processor can still be brought up to current spec. Yes there is a cost, yes, it's expensive, but THIS is customer loyalty AND manufacturer loyalty if a piece of gear is still owned ten years from now, and the upgrades are still offered and the listener is still satisfied. Apples to apples, the VK 60 Monoblocks absolutely kill the M120's in every area of performance. Yes, the cost difference is great but only you, the listener, can decide if the sonic rewards merit the additional expense. Bottom line: whatever you do, audition BAT in addition to your other choices...you will like what you hear!