Beethoven Symphonies - best perf + sonics on CD

Learsfool, The next time you see Greensburg tell him thanks for me. My last formal music class was 1966 8th grade music. I have the vast majority of his courses, and several of them I have been through at least twice. I'm working my way through the Mozart chamber set now. As usual, he has opened my ears to some gems I was not familiar with.

On the Brahms , I admire much of what Abbado has done but I haven't heard his Brahms. i will check this out and probably the Szell also. I also would love to hear Welser-Most and the Clevelanders do a cycle. I heard them do the Violin Concerto with Zimmerman several years back and found it to be mighty fine Brahms.

I found the 1940 Toscanini Brahms to be very un-Toscanini like. Very Teutonic. Had I heard it without knowing i would never have guessed it was him.

On the Beethoven, the Gardiner set is a great one and it does get played, especially the 2nd. But you know, I just can't make the historically informed/original instrument approach my base camp. Its worthwhile, informative, enjoyable, but it speaks to my mind. Not my heart.

At this point in time, I find that Baroque and earlier music sounds better to my ear and simply more "right" when played on period instruments and with the prevailing scholastic ideas applied. Classic era music I like either way. By around Beethoven and beyond I prefer modern instruments.

Tempo is an area requiring pretty deep discussion. But I guess we have the time or we wouldn't be here!

I tend to believe that tempo markings are primarily dependent upon the overall aesthetic of the work. Back in the day of course, conductors had to speed up tempos in order to fit works onto a recording. This was a serious handicap with cylinders and 78's. Brahms is well known for writing in tempos like, 'fast but not too fast and certainly not slow'. What it comes down to I think is that neither Beethoven nor Brahms would expect tempos to be exactly the same between any one performance. Composers throughout time have understood personal interpretations of their scores as being part of the artistic process. I'd even be as bold as to say that there was more freedom given with respect to interpretation during these afore mentioned composers lifetimes than there is today. At the top of my head I am thinking of the Percy Granger Grieg Piano Concerto on 2L (a very interesting approach to using a piano roll).

Learsfool, thanks for bringing your very extensive knowledge and expertise to this thread. If you get a chance, do try to listen to Toscanini's 1940 Brahms 1st recording, via the link I provided above.

Returning to Beethoven, I'm surprised that no one has yet mentioned the 1958 Bruno Walter/Columbia Symphony "Pastorale."

I have it on LP, on an imported Japanese CBS/Sony remaster, I believe from the 1980s, which has very respectable if not great sonics. It appears to be readily available these days on various CDs, although I have no idea what their sonic quality may be.

It is considered by many to be the definitive interpretation of this beautiful work.

Best regards,
-- Al

"Beethoven's metronome was indeed just fine, and he really did intend for the tempos to be that quick."

I would agree and being a student of Haydn, Beethoven's early symphonies would probably be at a similar quick tempo.