B&K and Martin Logan Theater i


I have a Laurier Odyssey entertainment center. I have placed my theateri on the very top instead of the bridge above the t.v., so my wife can use it for display. Once I got all of the speakers hooked up this weekend, I tried watching a couple of movies. The front L&R, effects, and sub were great, but the dialog from the center was less than
desirable. It sounded like the speaker was in a box--muddy, echoing, and dialog was not understandable most of the time.
Now, I have angled the theater down toward the listening position. It was shooting strait forward to begin with--over my head. It is better, but in my opinion it needs to be more crisp and clear. Especially, for a $2500 center channel speaker. I don't ever want to say "what did they say" during a movie again!!!!!
Does anyone have advice for tweeking my theateri using my B&K 507 avr w/ ref 3220 amp?
Music sounds really nice from the center I think! I have listened to 3 dvda disks--Dianna Krall, Look of Love; Eagles, Hell Freezes Over; and Manheim Steamroller, House of Mouse. Seamless integration with the rest of the system. On the other hand, the two DTSES movies I have tried just sound like crap--Seven & Osterman Weekend. I have played with room equilization, notch filters, and angling it down. How can music sound so good, and a movie sound like they are in a cave? Voices have echoes and they cut in and out--very difficult to hear. The speaker must be fine if music sounds so good. I need help with set up through my 507. I want audio from a movie to be crisp and pure. I want the actors to be in the room talking to me!
rynopr
Rynopr:
I too have the Laurier with the bridge. I'd been struggling with a similar problem. I have the ML Logos as my center with Martin Logan CLS's in the front and Aerius's in the rears. Movie dialogue sounded muddy and difficult to understand. I tried a different AV processor but nothing seemed to help.
My problem turned out to be echo waves that were peaking where the wall in back of me hit the ceiling. That wall is about 20 feet high and undamped without any sound treatments, bookcases etc.
I didn't figure the problem out until I stood on a stepladder and started clapping as loud as I could in front of the Logos at varying heights. Lo and behold I got terrible echoing and "ringing" at the wall/ceiling junction when I clapped at the height of the bridge but none when I clapped down at floor height. My problem was solved. Once I moved the Logos onto the floor I could suddenly understand all the movie dialogue I was missing. Later, for asthetic reasons, I may move the Logos back onto the Laurier bridge and invest in quarter round echo busters at the ceiling junction.
Try the clapping test and see if you detect echos at the wall/ceiling junction behind you. Either damp those with room treatments or move the center channel onto the floor.
I hope this might help.
First (and likely not most importantly however) those movies, I remember didn't have the best dialog mixes on DVD. I own SEVEN and do remember that.in
However, as being that many movies(if not most) offer somewhat of a "boxy center channel mix" (due to editting, dubbing, mixing, and remixing, etc), you can expect less than transparent quality comming from the center. That said, if your system balance, your level matching, your speaker placment set up, your overall calibration and frequency response and sub levels and acoustics are all off, you'll have a much COMPOUNDED PROBLEM with DIALOG INTELLIGIBILITY!!!!
MOST PEOPLE, even those using higher end-resolution speakers, get poor results because all the factors mentioned (compounded by POOR SET UP/bad balance and frequency response issues) above add up to too many sonic challenges thrown into the mix! It's WAY TOO EASY TO HAVE BASS TURNED UP TOO HIGH, and/or too BOOMY AND PEAKY, which will inevitably help DROWN OUT THE MIDRANGE AND TREBBLE!...believe it!
MOST PEOPLE have that "UP AND DOWN ON THE VOLUME" PROBLEM,such as you're experiencing! Loud passages have you "cranking down the volume", and soft passages with difficult dialog have you "pushing up the volume". THIS IS MAINLY A "SYSTEM BALANCE PROBLEM"! (the reason system tweaking, calibration, acoustics, flat frequency response and level matching are all critlcal!!!.)
Most people think you just buy expensive gear and it sounds wonderful!...not hardly. That's why you need people who know what they're doing for WORLD CLASS RESULTS...basically, it takes years.
Another reason "Theater speakers" are so effective for, well, home theater! They're made for pressence, dynamics, and dialog intelligibility and detail. They're not made for sounding "pretty and transparent" often!(not of critical importance for movie mixes in the end).
You can however fix much of your issues, and help difficult(yes a bit boxy) dialog problems from your center. Start by checking frequency response(speaker and seating placment factors), speaker levels and matching(between them), acoustics, etc(is your speaker to close to the ground, other reflective reinforcment, boundaries, etc?...also, is there a table or reflective surface between you and the speaker?...if up high, what's the ceiling like?...anything to break up relections up there?)
It's all a BALANCING ACT! Lots of factors influence the results. Get em right, and you'll not care about all the boxy mixing that is inherent in the center!(note: even at movie theaters the dialog is a bit boxy, due to mix).
All great systems/setup's offer very HIGH DIALOG INTELLIGEBILITY! After all, the center is critical for anchoring the movie, indeed! Start with one thing at a time.
Otherwise, your best bet is hiring a pro to get your money's worth out of your investment.
It's been proven a gillion times that you can spend money having a pro do it right, spend less of the gear, and you'll get infinitely better results most often even!
There's no replacment for experience.
Good luck
P.S.,...the $2500 Logan center is "beamy", (design nature) and you must aim it towards your ears!!!!. If not, comb-filtiering and "roll-off" will further kill your cause!!!!!