Best all-around cartridge for 500.00 new

Maxgain, sorry if you took that personally. While i did specifically respond to several points that you commented on, i was simply trying make an alternative suggestion. As such, i made some direct comparisons between the Stanton and the Shure. Since the V15 series has always been somewhat of an "industry standard" and your comments seem to echo the general consensus amongst end users, i used them as a reference / comparison point.

The Shure V series cartridges have all been highly regarded even though they have some serious flaws in them. As such, i suggested the Stanton as i know that it is both a better performer ( in pretty much every aspect ) and is available for well under $200. It is an often overlooked gem amongst MM type cartridges.

For the record, i do have several different Shure's in my possesion, some of them dating back almost 30 years. Shure is less than an hour's drive away from me. The fact that i've found their customer service and lack of parts availability for specific models rather frustrating at times is completely besides the point.

As to the Pickering's, no, i don't think that they've ever "smoked" anything. They do bare a physical resemblance to some of the Stanton's, but that was about it.

As to the Denon, yes, they used to market a 103C and 103D back in the 1970's. They still make a model using the same number but i don't think it is a duplicate of either of the aforementioned models. Sean
>

PS... i know just enough to know that i don't know it all. I'm working on that though, so keep the info coming... : )

Thanks Sean,I did. Have you listened to the latest version of the Shure, as I NEVER thought I would use one of their cartridges. The V15III was popular but you would never have caught me dead with one in my table as the sound was very middle of the road mid fi. Out of desperation I bought the latest one(V15VxMR) a month ago and it has been a surprise. Although it is not my first choice it was a matter of ecconomy. I tried to repalce an expensive MC with the $300 Grado, It sounded very nice but seemed to hate my arm and the elliptical stylus exagerates noise to a point where it was difficult to enjoy. My suggestion was for a cartridge that would allow for a VTA base to be purchased (which the Stanton would accomodate)within the budget and not hum in the Rega. The VTA base is a must have item, you may be able to mount a cartridge and find a point that sounds OK with the spacers, but you will never know if a point in between sounds alot better. VTA adjustments that are microspopic can make profound differences in the sound of a system with some resolution. The latest V15 uses a very stiff and very low mass ultra-thin wall(0.0005-inch) beryllium tube cantilever combined with a very low mass highly polished MR diamond. Something about objects in motion...? It's not your fathers M91ed any more. If the Stanton is anything like the ones I remember the cantilever looks like a short frameing nail. This too may have changed, as have the Shures. I would take almost any cartridge with a Micro Ridge over a cartridge with an elliptical in my own system just due to the noise. I like the thing,I like my Shure! I admit it, it seems to be one of those things you need to hide here I guess,"Don't ask, don't tell" It is one of those dirty little secrets, like saying you listen to MIT cables and like it.(I do that too! but that is another story) I guess I am out of the Audiogon closet. No, the V15VxMR would not be my first choice if budget was not a consideration, but I can enjoy my record collection again.

I agree wholeheartedly with the majority of your observations. I also shouldn't be "knocking" any comments regarding trying to help someone or promote the use of vinyl. For that i apologize.

Since many people are jumping back into vinyl with "cold feet", i was simply trying to provide them with an alternative viewpoint. My experience is that if someone can spend less money and get better overall results, they are all for it. This is not to say that the Stanton is the "end all" product, only that it is a very worthwhile contender for their cash. As everyone knows, there is always room to move in audio.

As you mentioned, the newer Shure is a big leap forward from their older cartriges and i think that most people that have heard it agree. The biggest difference seems to be in the upper registers. Improvements in air, space and overall "open-ness" are duly noted. They have basically "cleaned house" and you are left with a cleaner, less congested presentation.

As to the cantilever design, i think that this is what was hurting them in the past. Their last design made use of a thin walled telescoping design to minimize tip mass. As with any telescoped design, there is a certain amount of "play" between joints. While the basic idea was there, it obviously needed refining.

They were obviously trying to reduce tip mass but forgot about a few other factors. While low tip mass is a good thing, flexing of the cantilever is not. This tends to produce non-linear distortions and smearing of detail. This is the problem that i heard with the earlier Shure's. It became more obvious as dynamic range increased. This is due to greater vertical deflection of the cantilever which would have caused greater amounts of flexing. As such, the louder the recorded passage became, the greater the amount of distortion generated. If one played mostly "quiet" recordings without a lot of dynamic range ( chamber music, highly compressed recordings, etc...), you might not notice this.

I will give Shure credit in the fact that their older cartridges never sounded "offensive" ( bright and edgy ), made use of low surface noise tips and would work in a wide variety of arms. As such, they were always a "safe" albeit less than optimum choice.

The Stanton approach was much the opposite of Shure's. They chose a very rigid cantilever that may have been slightly heavier, but kept it short as possible. This not only reduced the overall weight, but kept it as rigid as possible. With the shortest path possible from tip to motor structure and flexing reduced to minimal, the result is a greater amount of detail being directly modulated from the groove with less distortion and a more linear output.

As with any cartridge though, you can play with loading characteristics to obtain the best results. The difference in tonearm wiring, interconnects, etc... all need to be addressed if you are going to make an attempt at "vinyl nirvana". Sean
>

No sweat Sean, I would love to try the Dynavector 10X4 "Gold" that Music Direct sells. Under $500, Boron cantiliever, micro ridge stylus and available in a 2.5mv output version. It was a limited edition and may no longer be available. I usually love the boron,MR,MC's with a bit of output and Dynavector makes great cartridges.I am very interested in the Clearaudio MM's as well, like the Virtuoso Wood. I can't find reliable info on what sort of tip profile Clearaudio uses on these though. I have seen different info evry where I look, some say elliptical, some claim VanDenHul, some say fine line(another term for MR if I am not mistaken) what the hell is it?

Try contacting Clearaudio directly or call Bes at Music Direct. I had a brief conversation with him about these cartridges as i too was somewhat interested in them. From what he described them as sounding like ( nothing like the stereophile review and recommendation ), i decided to leave well enough alone.

Music Direct supposedly has a new "demo room" now with a small selection of the electronics that they carry set up. I'm going to have to stop by there sometime soon and see what's new and exciting. They are about a 1/2 hour drive from me, which is pretty convenient to say the least. Sean
>