Genetic differences in turntable design.

Sean, while I feel some agreement with your statements, surely you must know that I have owned and set-up and listened to many, many different suspended turntables, and unsuspended ones. While all are different, and have their own particular good and bad points, I have come to the conclusion that I did, by my own particular experiences. As I said at the end of my first post, IMHO and YMMV.

I certainly am aware that there are good sounding and performing suspended turntables. Some of the very best ones are suspended, and they do a good job with them.

I am speaking of my preferences for a particular design that, if well executed, I believe can be the preferred type of design, as far as total performance is concerned. Of course, listening environments can vary, and certain compromises may be required to accomodate these things. It is my current view that when the listening environment, including floor construction is correct and optimized, that a high mass unsuspended TT of excellent design can yield the best result.

My statements are not intended to be a "knock" on anyone's turntable, and are purely a statement of my opinions on design parameters.

Tom: I hear you and respect both you and your opinions. I'm also glad that you were honest enough to discuss the shortcomings of a reputable product "point blank". At the same time, i'm somewhat disappointed that you felt the need to be "PC" in terms of offending those that own such a product. Tell the truth and let the chips fall where they may. That is, unless you're planning on running for a political office : )

My thoughts are based on the experiences that i've had with Linn's and have been influenced by others that have been Linn owners in the past. I know that my thoughts and experiences of others that i know are not "out of the ordinary" either. I've read reviews where Linn's had tonearms hop, skipping and jumping across the record whereas other "mass produced" tables worked fine in the same environment. Not only are they "tweaky" to set up, they don't seem to retain "calibration" all that well. On top of this, they tend to be very susceptible to ANY type of external vibration, which even you mentioned. As far as i know, reduced susceptability to both floor based and air-borne vibrations would be the very reason why one would want to go to a suspended table.

As such, i consider the Linn an abomination to this type of architecture. It is a product that does not live up to the hype, is poorly designed yet has the reputation of a God. If i can save someone else the trouble of finding out the hard way what an expensive let-down this table is, count me in. I will only add that those that listen to chamber music, mount the table in a separate room, have speakers with no bass output, listen at low volumes or do not move about at all when a record is playing might be happy with an LP-12. That is, if they can get it set up right and keep it that way.

The fact that you are a factory trained "LP-12 tech", knew all of the in's and out's of making them work yet plainly stated that the table was a NIGHTMARE should let others know just what to expect out of this product. Even if one does know and fully understand the "fine art" of getting these tables set-up properly like Twl did, you can still expect the problems mentioned above to some extent.

I'll leave the Linn alone from now on. I think i've said everything that i can say about that table from my point of view. Sean
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The creature on steroids will smoke a Linn--even using the stock tonearm...and the fluid damper.

Sean, thanks, I gather that you're not going out to buy a Linn tomorrow? :^)

Actually, I did like the sound of the Linn for a number of years. But it did have some floor vibration issues that were disconcerting.

I used to be less "PC" than I seem to be now, because I have had alot of discussions with folks here, and they truly like their equipment, and I really don't want to make people feel like I'm totally trashing their stuff. After all, I don't have to listen to it, they do. And if they like it, that's fine with me. I'll state my opinions and preferences, but I try not to come down like a ton of bricks on them, like I used to when I first started posting on these pages a couple of years ago.

What I've found over the years, here on Audiogon, is that I've made some friends and acquaintances, and I am trying to be more careful not to hurt their feelings of pride in their system. I don't lie to them about anything, but I am more judicious in the ways that I say things. I try to "prod" them into moving in a better direction, instead of kicking sand in their faces like I used to do. I don't know if this is better or not, but it can get the same point across in a gentler way. However, if I see someone making a really bad, expensive move, then I definitely step in and say no, because I feel a kind of responsibility in that regard. If they disregard my warnings, then it is on their own heads. But, if I don't warn them, and they come to me later and say, "Hey Tom, how come you didn't warn me about that?" Then it's not a good thing.

It's a fine line to walk. I want to be firm about my views, but there is more than one way to listen to analog, and I found that I have to allow some leeway for personal preference. Some people just ask me to spec them out a package, and I know that they will get a good result. Others want to try certain other things, and if it is not a drastic mistake, I'll let them do some learning through experience. One thing I've learned is that not everybody wants the same thing that I want.

So, I'm trying to walk that fine line, of holding true to my convictions, but being less "in your face" about it. Sometimes, the "old me" comes back out and I do a little "slamming", but I try to keep a hold on myself as much as possible. I think if I do it right, I can get the same things accomplished without "going to war".

Lak and I want to go to Appalachia...