2. analog
  3. 1028872405

Manners, Eticks & Audiogon --- What do you think???

MANNERS

I am not holding myself out as Mother Theresa, Ralph Nader or Emily Post.....but.
Have any of you folks responded to a for sale ad and never gotten a response? Like even a response of the sort that says: thanks for your interest but the item is sold? Or perhaps: I have changed my mind and my Widget 1.5 (Rev 2) is no longer for sale?

My experience may be atypical, but I find that at least 30% of the folks I have communicated with/attempted to communicate with through the Audiogon eMail forwarding system never respond. And some respond days later. (The majority of folks impress me as passionate hobbyists who are scrupulously honest and could not be more polite.) Do you think there is a problem with the A-gon eMail system and that the mail just doesn't get delivered? Or, merely with the manners of some of the advertisers?

ETHICS

Unfortunately, my impression is that a minority of people here also.....to state it as politely as possible.....take poetic license with the truth in constructing their ads.

Example #1: I responded to a recent (perhaps still current....have not checked) ad which concerned me. The seller/copy writer said that he was selling his component "because of court order." The context in which he made this claim gave the following meaning to the claim: this component works so well that it has caused so much havoc in my environment that people have gone to court and a judge has ordered me to sell my component. I was wondering just what jurisdiction was going to order someone to sell a hi-fi component. . . . as opposed to ordering the person to turn it down after, say, 10:00 PM.

I got an answer from the advertiser. Without directly admitting that he had fudged a bit he made it clear that there was no court order but that neighbors had griped.

What do you folks think? The claim would not be taken seriously by most people, I don't think....but is it okay to make stuff up like that in this collegial form---in a for sale ad? I think it is borderline. But, only because most of us have the good sense to discount or just plain ignore such a claim.

Example #2: This person was offering a component for sale. After an eMail which asked some specific questions this person responded that he had sold an even fancier unit to the owner of the item that was for sale. That he, the advertiser, had offered to sell his customer's former component for him. He did respond to some of the questions. Other questions he just plain did not respond to. Even after two or three follow-up eMails. Of minor concern was his failure to answer a question about the value of a resistor in the component. No "I don't know" or anything of the kind. A polite answer to the eMail but no answer to that question. Of much greater concern: I asked him, since this was not his component was his statement in his ad, to the effect that "sounds wonderful" based on his having hooked it up and listened to it? Did it have any hum or make any funny noises? Once again -- a polite eMail back but the question as to whether this person had any basis for rating the performance of a piece of gear whatsoever --- remained, and still remains, unanswered.

What do you folks think? Is it caveat emptor on Audiogon. Do sellers have a duty to be forthright and answer questions directly and responsively? Is it okay to just ignore a question that you don't want to answer because you don't want to flat out lie and don't want to loose a sale if you tell the truth? Even if the truth is relatively benign like say: I don't know, personally---I am taking the word of the owner?
cloudgif
driver's avatar
driver
750 posts
 
I guess some people think they have to embellish (#1) to sell something. Seems like you discovered with the back & forth attempted communication that this guy (#2)wasn't worth dealing with.

Time & time again I've commented, as have others, that when something about a transaction doesn't seem quite right then go with your instincts & stay away. I've been somewhat apprehensive about a deal or two but after talking to the seller on the phone was able to make a decision based on the phone call. I highly recommend a phone call especially when making a higher priced deal.

Twl, your comments sure bring back lots of memories. When I was riding Harleys you could buy & sell them all day long for $1,500.00 & ride them away. Maybe they needed a new chain or a Barnett clutch but definitely not a basket case. The most I ever paid for one was 3k & it was completely modified/balanced/blueprinted/custom paint/chrome. That last one was in 1981.

I attribute all these types of behavior to a general decline in the civility of people in our society today. Look at how people not only drive with no courtesy but in almost any city you can see people run lights at any intersection. And how about standing in line with someone bumping into you or going through a door & the other person doesn't even wait for you to walk by before they brush past you on your side because they're too lazy to open the door on their side or at least hesitate a second before barging past?

Not a rant, just a little observation on people & when I observe this it just makes me more determined to try & do the right thing.
anth0456
41 posts
 
If it is unrelated to the quality or condition of the item for sale, what difference does it make why the seller is selling it? Especially since, upon further investigation, you were able to determine the real story. You then had enough information to make a decision as to whether this is someone you want to do business with.

I have been an obsessive Audiogon user for about two years now. Like just about every other internet-related buying and selling forum, A'gon has a very small minority of folks who try to take advantage of the relative anonymity of the format to pull a fast one. Some folks are not dishonest, but are just rude/ignorant about responding to inquiries and answering questions from interested buyer (I think of this as more of a customer service issue than one of integrity). However, the vast majority of transactions I have been involved in have been direct, honest and satisfying. I am not a motorcyclist, but it seems to me there is still a great deal of collegiality on this site. As an example, I began this hobby with very little knowledge about audio and through a combination of buying and listening to equipment, reading forum posts and asking questions here, I have learned a great deal -- all of it essentially free of charge (even the equipment, which, for the most part I was able to sell without losing too much money.)

Even though this is a great resource and community for audiophiles at all levels, there is no substitute for common sense. I would argue that caveat emptor is the rule in every commercial situation, whether on the internet or in person.
cloudgif OP
19 posts
 
Thanks to all of you. What an amazing number of intelligent responses...it seems that I was "preaching to the choir." Just would like to give a little "eWave" to all of the brothers and sisters on the audio road. Never rode a Harley, but waived to a few thousand from my Matchless 500cc single and my Square Four....my riding buddy had a '47 Harley w/ suicide clutch. And, specifically to Anth0: thanks for your take! You are right, of course. One has to use common sense and lookout for oneself. I guess that I just get irritated when someone advertises their Widget with hyperbole which insults our intelligence---and apparently---feels no shame when called on it. I would hope that well reasoned and intelligent discussion like this would educate folks and help re-form our forum.
unsound
7,332 posts
 
It has been my (limited) experience that those who are in the "business" are the least likely to return e-mails re: items they have posted for sale or auction. The hobbyists seem to be the most well mannered in this regard.
mgottlieb
334 posts
 
Well, let's not just beat up on sellers. I have two ads on now. On those two ads, I have received four responses--two offers to buy at the posted price if I would tell them what the shipping was, then no response; one "buyer" who wrote to tell me that he could do better elsewhere; and one guy who was ticked off when I wouldn't trade for something I don't need. Are things going downhill real fast? You bet, but don't be so limited in who you blame.
More to discover