2. cables
  3. 1012762232

Interconnects: Silver, Copper or Silver Plated?

A new discussion on an old topic: your experiences with interconnect metallurgy.

I've recently tried several different cables of different metals: Cardas (Twinlink -- all copper); Nordost (silver-plated copper); and Lieder (all silver). Each has a different sound. My speakers (Snell A Reference Towers) are known for having somewhat dark highs. I found that the Cardas multiplied this tendency, and the music sounded muted and dull.

The Nordost -- for my ears and my system -- were far better. I'm currently using their Red Dawn balanced for the IC between the CD player (Sony XA7ES) and preamp (Plinius CD-LAD).

Then it came time to fiddle with the turntable's interconnects. Cardas again made the music dead. Nordost Blue Heaven was an improvement ... but with the cartridge's low output, and the Nordost's minimal insulation, I found that noise easily entered the signal path running from 'table to phono stage (Plinius Jarrah).

Then I came across a real find. One of the guys who put Siltech on the map is Jaap Gunter. He lives in the Netherlands; while no longer affiliated with Siltech (whose products he designed), he now makes his own cables, called the "Lieder." These are all silver, heavily insulated, with locking RCAs. WOW! What a difference! The 'table now has sound quality approaching what I like best about CDs ("clean" sound with incredible range), while retaining all the warmth and beauty of analog. Even my wife (whose favorite expression is "Turn that DOWN!") was amazed: "Come on ... that isn't one of your super Mo-Fi gold CDs?" she asked.

I understand that system synergy is everything ... but I wonder ... has anyone else tried Jaap's Lieder cables? What was your experience with them? How about your experiences with copper vs. silver-plated copper vs. all-silver?
paul_frumkin
bear
141 posts
 
The reality is that first "geometry" then insulation
and then metal effects the sound - then solder, then
the connector being the least (given reasonably good
solder and connectors, of course).

If you are not comparing *identical* cables in terms of
*everything* except for a single change, then it is
impossible to know what is causing the change that you
hear. (notwithstanding any DBT-ers out there)

I've done just that - manufactured identical cables except
for the metal, keeping the gauges all the same too. I came
to the conclusions below - and figured out what to do about
pure Silver and get the best of all worlds.

In general, most of the manufacturers who use pure Silver
are getting the "silver signature" sonics, IMHO. That's
the really sweet highs, and kinda washed out middle and
bottom.

If a mfr has (again IMHO) gone to Silver Plated Copper wire
to "improve" the sound, then perhaps they don't have a handle on how to work with Silver in the first place.

It's not so simple, which is why most pure Silver cables,
(again IMHO) don't really work across the board. But on
the other hand, SPC and regular copper seem to introduce
their own problems. The ideal is to keep the best of the
silver and come up with a "Natural Timbre" and "balanced"
sound!

That's the quest. That's what I aimed for when I designed
Silver Lightning. You can ask others if I hit the mark or
not.

_-_-bear (bearlabs.com)
chris-l44db
1 posts
 
Lat International does not like silver or copper. They resolve the debate by using a metal that is proprietary to them they call it siverfuse. I thought I would try their IC-200 MK II analog interconnect. Great results. Here is an excerpt I copied from their web site which is latinternational.com "Silverfuse is a near alloy of silver and copper. IT IS NOT SILVER PLATED OR SILVER CLAD. Plating (or clad, which is the same thing as plating) causes a dioding effect when signal is passed through resulting in brightness and distortion. The Silverfuse process starts with seven nines OFHC copper wire with a diameter that is slightly larger than the required size. It is then pulled through a trough of molten silver. The wire with a silver deposit, is then forced through a compacting die where it is subject to tremendous pressure. The silver and the high purity copper are fused together into a near alloy. The compacting fusion also reduces the wire diameter to the desired size. No dioding subsequently occurs with this process. The result provides for the benefits of silver; which are excellent definition and clarity, with the high purity copper benefits of warmth and mellowness"
ulrikgm
51 posts
 
Silver no doubt.
But you have to find a brand that uses enough of it to avoid thin sound.
Check out the Argento cables at www.argento.dk
I have used these cables for some years now and I have never heared anything like them!
Extremly detailed, but absolutly no listening fatigue.

Regards,

Ulrik
sonic_genius
528 posts
 
I believe Nordost and Pure Note use cladded silver/copper. This is not the same as a thin plating. By definition cladding is two pieces of metal fused together. In both the mentioned brands, sonics are much clearer than pure silver alone IMO. Of course there are many other factors like dielectrics that are important.
bear
141 posts
 
..."The Silverfuse process
starts with seven nines OFHC copper wire with a diameter that is slightly
larger than the required size. It is then pulled through a trough of
molten silver. The wire with a silver deposit, is then forced through a
compacting die where it is subject to tremendous pressure. The silver
and the high purity copper are fused together into a near alloy. The
compacting fusion also reduces the wire diameter to the desired size. No
dioding subsequently occurs with this process. The result provides for
the benefits of silver; which are excellent definition and clarity, with the
high purity copper benefits of warmth and mellowness..."

is what was posted.

This is nonsense - this is precisely how "Silver Plated Copper" is made - the drawing process *is* what makes the final gauge in all wire, it is never drawn to size and then plated, afaik.

As far as drawing through a bath of molten silver, I am skeptical that this will permit the copper to be wetted properly, and for the silver to bond properly and that a
thickness of the silver deposit can be controlled in this manner. Perhaps, but I'm not sure if this is in practice any
different from the plating process.

It would make sense to check the melting points of silver and copper - if copper happens to be lower than silver, that would make this claim quite questionable in some regard.

_-_-bear
More to discover