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Interconnects: Silver, Copper or Silver Plated?

A new discussion on an old topic: your experiences with interconnect metallurgy.

I've recently tried several different cables of different metals: Cardas (Twinlink -- all copper); Nordost (silver-plated copper); and Lieder (all silver). Each has a different sound. My speakers (Snell A Reference Towers) are known for having somewhat dark highs. I found that the Cardas multiplied this tendency, and the music sounded muted and dull.

The Nordost -- for my ears and my system -- were far better. I'm currently using their Red Dawn balanced for the IC between the CD player (Sony XA7ES) and preamp (Plinius CD-LAD).

Then it came time to fiddle with the turntable's interconnects. Cardas again made the music dead. Nordost Blue Heaven was an improvement ... but with the cartridge's low output, and the Nordost's minimal insulation, I found that noise easily entered the signal path running from 'table to phono stage (Plinius Jarrah).

Then I came across a real find. One of the guys who put Siltech on the map is Jaap Gunter. He lives in the Netherlands; while no longer affiliated with Siltech (whose products he designed), he now makes his own cables, called the "Lieder." These are all silver, heavily insulated, with locking RCAs. WOW! What a difference! The 'table now has sound quality approaching what I like best about CDs ("clean" sound with incredible range), while retaining all the warmth and beauty of analog. Even my wife (whose favorite expression is "Turn that DOWN!") was amazed: "Come on ... that isn't one of your super Mo-Fi gold CDs?" she asked.

I understand that system synergy is everything ... but I wonder ... has anyone else tried Jaap's Lieder cables? What was your experience with them? How about your experiences with copper vs. silver-plated copper vs. all-silver?
paul_frumkin
bear
141 posts
 
..."The Silverfuse process
starts with seven nines OFHC copper wire with a diameter that is slightly
larger than the required size. It is then pulled through a trough of
molten silver. The wire with a silver deposit, is then forced through a
compacting die where it is subject to tremendous pressure. The silver
and the high purity copper are fused together into a near alloy. The
compacting fusion also reduces the wire diameter to the desired size. No
dioding subsequently occurs with this process. The result provides for
the benefits of silver; which are excellent definition and clarity, with the
high purity copper benefits of warmth and mellowness..."

is what was posted.

This is nonsense - this is precisely how "Silver Plated Copper" is made - the drawing process *is* what makes the final gauge in all wire, it is never drawn to size and then plated, afaik.

As far as drawing through a bath of molten silver, I am skeptical that this will permit the copper to be wetted properly, and for the silver to bond properly and that a
thickness of the silver deposit can be controlled in this manner. Perhaps, but I'm not sure if this is in practice any
different from the plating process.

It would make sense to check the melting points of silver and copper - if copper happens to be lower than silver, that would make this claim quite questionable in some regard.

_-_-bear
bear
141 posts
 
"...But you have to find a brand that uses enough of it to avoid thin sound..."

was posted.

This too is not likely to be correct. Unless you are using
a really long length of very thick wire, the self inductance that would be created is too small to make much of a difference in the sound *compared to* the other factors that
I mentioned in my earlier post.

There are some tonal differences when you go to extremely thin gauges, and there may be some if you go to something like 12ga and up but the other factors tend to dominate.

I use a stranded nominal 19ga. wire that is pure silver,
and found a unique and proprietary geometry and construction
technique that results in a very balanced tonal quality without sacrificing the upper register clarity that almost any silver wire will exhibit. That's a large part of what makes my Silver Lightning interconnects different than the other attempts at silver cables. (IMHO, of course!)

As I mentioned before it is important to compare cables made with the *identical* construction and geometry if you want to have a shot at identifying the effects (if any) of the actual metal. In other words, to make a valid comparison of these factors, one must only change one parameter at a time, otherwise it is entirely unclear what caused or did not cause a difference. I did this during the development of Silver Lightning.

So, while one cable may be better sounding to your ears, it may or may not be due to what seems to be most obvious at first look. Caveat Emptor!

:- )

_-_-bear
ozzy's avatar
ozzy
7,455 posts
 
Some of the comments sound like a dealer for LAT Cable.

I own the Lat cable and it does not compete with AZ, Synergistic,JPS,Electraglide,Kimber Select,AudioQuest, etc, etc.
It is all there hype that there cables are as good a $$$ cables.

I use mine from my cassette Player don't waste your money.
fredkeys
1 posts
 
I would like to clear up the doubts expressed by Bear concerning our Silverfuse process. I am Lou Tumolo president of L A T International.
Concern:
"if copper happens to be lower than silver, that would make this claim quite questionable in some regard"

This concern implies that if copper has a lower boiling point than silver, the copper would melt when pulled through the bath of melted silver. This does not occur because silver has a boiling point of 1762 degrees F and copper has a boiling point of 1981 F. We actually maintain the temperature of the silver close to that of the copper. This improves the wetting effect and and helps to control an even thickness of the siver coating achieved through surface tension.

Concerning drawing of silver plated copper, it is true that silver plated copper is plated before being drawn down to its final size. However, in the case of the silverfuse process, the bonding of the silver to copper is achieved by forcing it through a compacting die after being coated, not by simply puling it through a drawing die as is the commercial process of drawing wire to achieve it final size. Forcing through a compacting die, that applies tremendous pressure, is done not only by pulling it through the compacting die, but also by pushing through at the same time. Pulling alone, as is done in commercial drawing of wire would cause the wire to break. The wire comes through at the desired size which is a nominal size and is later drawn to the various sizes required for the manufacturing of all of our cables. The point is that there is no plating anywhere in the Silverfuse process.
audioengr
3,282 posts
 
Bear hit the nail on the head and I agree with his analysis completely. To make a high-performance interconnnect, it takes geometry (to optimize R,L,C), optimized dielectrics to reduce dielectric absorption and finally good metallurgy (this can be achieved several ways, but can involve fabrication, treatment and assembly of the conductors). Similar to Bears designs, I use 20 gauge stranded silver.
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