VPI HW19 MkIII vs. Michell Gyrodec?

Thanks for the response! I went ahead and ordered a JJ 243 preamp/phono stage today, so that will be part of my system. I forgot to mention, I listed to lots of different music from rock and metal to blues and folk to jazz and sometimes classical or electronic, so verstility is a good thing. The Gyro definitely has the look, but my VPI dealer can get me a VPI with the AQ PT-9 for about $400 less than my Michell dealer can get me the Gyro/RB300...with the money the VPI would save, I could get a very nice interconnect or trad up my Beta to a Virtuoso Wood...but I don't know...somethig about that Gyro! Also the VPI would take about 8 weeks to get in; I could have a Gyro within the week. Hey I'm a patient guy, but my beat-up AR perched atop a rack of tube amps...augh! Killing me! ;)

Ahhhh, what to do!

Dirtyragamuffin,

I don't know how much I can help you but here are some things to think about (if you haven't already received the Michell unit):-

>>plus I live in a loose bulding with plenty of vibration and NO possiblility of a wall shelf, so I need a competent suspension!

In this case, the Michell is a BAD choice & I feel that you will regret it! To get the best out of ANY suspended TT you need a rock-solid place to put it such as a wall shelf or a concrete stand such as that made by VPI or by Billy Bags. These things are freaking heavy but the idea is to arrest all vibrations from getting to the TT. If you let vibrations get to the TT, your suspended TT will sound merely mediocre & you will never realize its full potential. It'll be marginally better than your present setup. If I may, I'd recommend you go for a non-suspended TT such as the VPI Scout or Scout Master or a Nottingham Interspace. In your setting, the Nottingham should be the outright winner. Get the Nottingham w/ its corresponding tonearm - there is a lot of synergy between the TT & its arm as my good friend, who owns a Spacedeck, found out. He couldn't believe how much things got better when he swapped out his Origin Live Silver 250 for the Space tonearm!

* The RB250 is a more stable design than the RB300 as the 250 has bearings on *both* sides of the tonearm while the 300 has bearings only on *one* side. This is also why Origin Live chose to upgrade the RB250 & create a Silver 250 over the RB300.
A inherently more stable tonearm translates to its use with a much, much larger range of cartridges & cartridges that have a low(er) compliance such as the Denon DL103, Shelter & Koetsu types.

* You Aurum Beta cart. should work just fine as-is & I would spend top $ on getting the best TT. In order of priority that yields most spend the max. on
1. TT
2. tonearm
3. cart

'cuz if you put a stellar tonearm on a mediocre TT, you'll limit the tonearm & will obtain on mediocre sound. Same logic applies to mounting a stellar cart. on a mediocre tonearm. It is much better to mount a mediocre tonearm on a stellar TT as you know that the tonearm is giving you its best. Any subsequent upgrades in the tonearm will yield much better sound as the TT will not limit the sound. This, of course, is valid until you reach the limits of the TT. That is why buy the best TT possible w/ your $. You can keep it for a long time while you upgrade the tonearm.

* From a very reliable source (who I will insist on keeping confidential) I understand that the Michell suspensions are not as SOTA as its rivals. This person sells VPI, Michell, MMF & Nottingham for a long, long time. Many, many people, who have used his services, have nothing but compliments to pay to him. He has rarely misguided people & I have personal experience w/ him as do some of my friends. All, I'm saying is that I trust his advice completely. When I was looking for a TT, he recommended a Nott. Spacedeck w/ Space arm. I didn't go with his suggestion 'cuz of looks *only* . However, sound-wise, this TT-tonearm kills almost all its rivals & is *far* ahead of VPI & I have heard a VPI Aries-JMW10 & JMW12 TT.

FWIW. IMHO. YMMV.

Wow, interesting post! I've not yet ordered a turntable because I still can't decide!

I'm confused, though--you're saying a suspended turntable in a high-vibration environment will be worse than a non-suspended turntable that's just letting every vibration get right up to the stylus?

Hmmm....Very interesting. Non-suspended turntable does not need wall shelf or solid platform compared to suspended turntable???? Reason for putting suspension on the turntable to isolate the external vibration. That is the reason why non-suspended turntable sounds better with wall shelf or solid platform. Suspended turntable of course will benefit as well but not as much as non-suspended turntable.

OL RB250 is a good arm for the money, but not the best. I have owned OL modified RB250 and RB300. Definitely decent arms with the OL modification. Another clarification for OL using RB250 instead of RB300: According to OL and OL reps, spring in RB300/600/900 VTF adjustment has resonance problem in low frequency resulting less focussed/controlled bass and that is the main reason for RB250 having slight edge on the performance when fully tweaked.

Hi,

I haven't done a direct comparison between these two tables, but have owned a VPI 19-Jr. and the latest Michell Gyro SE, and have heard HW-19 MkIIIs and IVs, Scout and Aries. I now have a Nottingham table. Personally, I think the Michell is a step above the HW-19 series and Scout in dynamics and resolution (of course, the Aries is a different story). I too have suspended floors, with a fair amount of give. I did not have a big problem w/ the suspension of the Gyro, though a few times when my 80 & 95 lb. Labs got too excited by a cat or another dog, I got a little too much bounce in the suspension. The Michell had far less problems w/ bounce than other suspended tables I've owned, Systemdek and Linn, though I suspect the heavier VPI would be a better choice if a bouncing suspension is your only concern. I seem to have more feedback problems w/ the Nott, and need to add a more secure stand or a wall-stand. As far as sound quality, this is very personal and depends upon your preferences, setup, arm, cartridge, and the rest of the system. After selling my Gyro, I had to "downsize" to a Horizon, for reasons unrelated to quality of sound. The Horizon, while great for the $$, is not in the same class as the Gyro, as far as squeezing as much info from the LP, using the same cartridges for comparison. Another Gyro, or a Spacedeck would be the two tables I would consider if I were to buy in that price range again. BTW, I also had a Clearaudio Virtuoso w/ the Gyro, and thought this was a great cart. w/ a Rega arm (but not SME).

Terry