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Cartridge-- M/M or M/C

Even though I have been back into vinyl for about 9 or 10 months now, I am still a relative newbie. I used to listen to vinyl in the 70's but not the way I do now.
I have a MMF-7 TT with the stock Eroica cartridge. As you know this is a M/C cartridge with what I assume is high output. 2.5 mv. (is that right?)
I guess because of my stupidity it is time to upgrade.
I don't want, or let me rephrase, I can't spend more than $500. What are the character differences between M/C and M/M?
What should I be looking at in this price range?
Thanks, Scott
scottht
johnnantais
621 posts
 
Belts constantly react to groove modulations, stretching and contracting without end, which is why 'tables which offer both belt- and thread-drive capability universally sound better with the thread (which doesn't contract). Get rid of one problem, introduce another, which is why I keep a stable of players. It's been a while since I did any research into various motors: by Collector DC motors I assume you mean the type commonly found on idler-wheel drives? And are you saying that electro-magnetic noise is a bigger issue than speed stability? I am ready to be educated, you seem to know your motor lore and history (I do remember the issue of e-m noiswe in the development of record-players). I have the feeling this thread is a runaway train...What's Scott up to now?
marakanetz's avatar
marakanetz
5,473 posts
 
The brushes of DC motors are the main culprit of EM noise. The motor rotates from the physical contact from the brushes-collectors and due to physically unstable contact the transient EM noise occurs while the motor is working.
To visualize or audiolize that effect larger you can bring a drill(corded or cordless) closer to the cartridge and turn it on. You may even see your speaker drivers moove picking up transient pulses. Certainly such are much smaller from the supplied motor but they're present and definitely affect the performance of the system.
Cartridge pickups, microphones and speakers are working on the same effect of electromagnetics. when the current flows through the conductor it induces a magnetic field and bacwads: the moving magnet inside the electric field creates emf i.e. electro-motive force. One way or the other all magnetic systems are vulnerable to EM interfearance.

In AC motors there are no collector brushes and so is EM noise is minimized. The quartz-digital motors we can consider as a special case of AC motor where the freequency of pulse is dictated by quartz.

I never compared or analyzed issues of stability of EM interfearance, but more often myself had issues especially in cheap analogue systems where the system picked up too much of the motor noise that had been a primary reason of poor cartridge performance.
johnnantais
621 posts
 
Marakanetz, to pursue this conversation...I'm no electrical engineer, so don't string me up if I get this wrong. I am currenlty using a Grado Reference on an idler-wheel 'table, and it's as quiet as the grave, which is significant as the Grados are very sensitive to e-m fields. Now, looking at a prime example of an idler-wheel motor - a Lenco L75 (weight something like 3 pounds) - I see that it does not physically contact the brushes but spins freely like a well-designed platter bearing, which it in fact resembles, with the caveat that it has two bearings, one at each end, of polished stainless steel. So your comparison with the spark-throwing drill motor is incorrect in this case. From previous research into these motors (due to my first and shocking exposure to the idler-wheel principle) I had identified the motor as an "induction" motor. Maybe I was wrong, I never had a chance to find out as I was traveling at the time. Now I am only trying to remember what I read years ago, but the idler-wheel motors are "non-cogging" and so actually give out less physical vibration than AC motors (assuming my induction motor is not an AC motor itself!), assuming they are balanced, as all idler-wheel motors are. And, for instance, Origin Live is marketing an after-market DC motor which has received universally good reviews as providing a significant upgrade over AC motors and the expensive power supply regulation they require. Maybe you could elucidate these arcane matters for me, as I truly am interested. Probably I should get off my ass and take some sort of course in electronics. Much appreciated.
marakanetz's avatar
marakanetz
5,473 posts
 
Without looking inside of your Lenco motor which is I guess an advanced tech stuff, I can't say wether it's idler-wheel, AC or digital one.
If you're saying that the motor doesn't physically contact the brushes, than I assume the motor is driven by magnetic field that could either be due to the AC or quartz clocking pulse.
I can also assume that there are no brushes and ball bearings instead. In this case the noise will be much smaller but the fact of surfed contact is present still...

The drill example is only an example of an open problem arround all DC motors. Certainly there are ways to tame such noise and make it's influence area much smaller.

AC motors while do have vibrations have much less EM noise than DC ones. Kill one bitch and another will rise.

EM noise can interact with cartridge's magnet and change it's specified properties almost as well as Vibrations and speed instability.
johnnantais
621 posts
 
Thanks for the info, Marakanetz. The Lenco is an idler-wheel drive with an extremely heavy four-pole motor, which I calculate spins at about 1600-1800 RPMs. It has polished stainless steel bearings with pointed ends (but the motor lies horizontally), in bronze bushings. There's no quartz regulation, but this is not necessary, as the heavy and hand-balanced motor creates its own flywheel effect. The heavy and hand-balanced platter,with roughly 50% of its mass concentrated on the periphery, further smooths it out, because of the direct contact via the idler wheel. Garrards have similar motors, but different from the Lenco implementation. Thanks to you, now I begin to understand their inner workings.
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