Cable vs. Electronics: biggest bang for the buck

I realize I checked out of this forum, but then noticed I had left behind an open ended question. As I stated in a recent post, I had an appointment to listen to a fellow audiophile’s system, and I was to return the favor. How was the system with gilded wires all the way to the breaker box, and how it compares with my modestly wired system?

There was no way to judge the wire. That was because of the two system’s disparity between space and speakers. That isn’t quite accurate. My speakers require good space for proper function. The other’s Spendors were better than most box speakers, but they paled on all levels compared to my ribbon speakers. In his own words:

“The mid and high frequencies from your system are fantastic!, that rig
really brings out the expressive qualities of the musician. Hope to hear
more stuff there soon. The superior space you have is obvious after
listening here (his home) this morning.”

My impressions of his Wadia/Coda/Spendor/small room system were that it is noticeably veiled, a bit colored, and had trouble negotiating complex passages. This was probably all speaker related. His Wadia was neutral and very smooth. It controlled bass at high volume better than my tubed player, but the quality of the bass was again compromised by speaker. His Coda, class A, was very smooth, and sweet enough. With a positive change of speaker, he will have a marvelous sound.

I do think, though, the tubes in my system impart a specialness to the music beyond speakers, the Wadia can’t match. Soon, I will find out. Both systems have inaudible noise floors. That is important to me.

My conclusion remains. Active components should be attended to first, before any hard money is spent on wires, because no wire made can make up for a poorly matched amp, speaker, or front end. Nrch’s question is answered.

Asa, oh Asa. You are a talented writer, when you don’t gild the Lily. It is your condescending manner, to the point of bullying, that puts off a number of us.

"Condescending" "bullying"? Muralman, can you ever chime in without taking a gratuitious swipe at me, evidently now on behalf of unidentified others. If you want to mix it up a bit, that's fine, but let's do it without the audience and where we can speed it up a little, or alot, its up to you. As I said - repeated here for the third time - and assuming that you can find the time away from your family, which, er, selectively, you seem to be able to, contact me directly and we will have that "reasoned, mature" dialogue I spoke about. Otherwise, keep the gratuitous personal comments to yourself. Say something constructive beyond absolutist statements, step up or put a lid on it.

Has anyone ever heard a Coda sound "sweet"? My, my...when one conducts an experiment, one must ensure that the components used to test the hypothesis are actually able to translate results either way. Has anyone ever, ever heard of taking a Coda SS amp and matching it with Dominus, or the like? Yea, I can see how an Apogee ribbon with tubes in the line can sound better than a Coda amp...

Sub: you pulled the trigger too fast again; seeing what you think I will say, thinking that's what I said, then reaching a conclusion due to your preconcieved bias. While we could have a discussion on the mind as a "component", I did not say that and think it would be out of context and confusing here; I said the mind was in a continuum (a sequence) that included components "thereafter", meaning components after the mind. That's what "thereafter" usually means...I don't know what you mean by "cleaving" external effects from sound. Maybe I missed something; you said you might have ventured afield with the rug thing - the only external effect I "cleaved" - and then say I "cleaved" inappropriately. I took amp and wire and integrated them on a fundamental level, forcing the accuracy-attached to say that it was "compexity" that mattered. I then integrated complexity on wire v. amp, saying that there were priorities at different levels of system sophistication (a point still unchallenged), at which point "functional" became the measure, which then I said that in the listening context (which, again, is the final arbiter) they were functionally equal in most advanced systems (another point that has gone unchallenged), then said that adding the "rug" was self-serving and cognitively disingenuous. Oh well...

Hey guys, I'm really sorry that you had to concede that wire can be important and not always a scam, that you can't continue to swoop into threads with your science garble seeking to down talk those who hear something beyond the measurements. Sorry, sorry, sorry, but maybe you are going to have to admit that just maybe something out there beyond a "Coda amp", or the measurements that say it must be better, or the misplaced, uninformed bias against a piece of technology vs. another just because its appearance, or because it doesn't fit in with science's bias for more moving parts in their machines (a bias originally swallowed whole).

Exasperating...

Asa, I'm sorry it's so exasperating having to deal with us common people, but to your credit you make a sincere effort. If I can make a suggestion, take the time to list your system(s). It will help many of us to understand what is possibly at the outer limits of audiophilia.

One last point, this thing that we do is supposed to be fun. Are you having fun?

Yes, I understand that when someone makes people abide by the rules they impose on others, namely "scientific" rules of objectivity, or make them see the faulty assumptions they operate under, in an effort simply to level the field so such people don't go around beating people over the head with their measuring rulers, that they then start regressing from responding to what you've said and try to paint you as a "bully", or "condescending" or an "alchemist" (read: pre-scientific mythologist), or as an aristocrat (the implication of your "common" man comment, although you to can't quite bring yourself to say it...). All of this because someone had the audacity to cite that those who throw around the scientific jargon and arguments don't themselves seem to have a clue regarding the assumptions of their own thought system - the same one they are using in absolutist fashion to talk down others.

I have fun most all the time, but loose hope when people of obvious intellect and intelligence make such unself-reflective arguments - and always trying to use their intellect to beat up on someone who is not an acolyte of scientific measurement. They just don't like a little of their own medicine. And they usually start ganging up when it doesn't go their way...If they get a little perturbed that they aren't able to have their way in an cognitively authentic fashion, or think that now is the time to paint me from the bushes as an "arisocrat", so be it.

Yes, my system is relevant:

First system -

TNT 4 w/ Graham 2.2, Cardas Heart cart, Hovland phono cable, SDS, M'pingo disk on plinth at arm board, BDR Source top shelf, VPI stand for TT modified, Joule Electra LA200 (the one I reviewed in TAS)line stage & OPS-1 MkIII phono, all NOS-tubed, electronics on Magic Sound Production stand with isolation platforms, Cary 805B 50W SE monos with NOS RCA/GE/United 211 outputs, WE300B drivers, Brimar mil-spec inputs with Shun Mook resonators, all matched on dedicated stands (can't remember name, about $2K and outrageously expensive - I got for $500 used, but unbelievably good for you 805 owners out there), ESP Concert Grands & Harps, Quad US Monitors Crosby mods selectively, Electraglide PC's mostly, NBS Pro and AudioNote Kondo Az series IC's, Omega Micro Planar III copper with battery boxes skpr cable elevated, dedicated room with dedicated lines, cryod outlets various, Pentagon integrated CD player (CEC/Timber before that). Most everything custom tweaked by manufacturer because reviewing (you knew that didn't you...?)

Second system: Sony CD (the $3K obsolete one that goes for about $1K used now, XA7Es or something or other), AudioNote Kondo Az to Supratek Syrah (NOS black glass KenRads 6SN7's, Mullard rectifier, etc.) through NBS Pro IC to AirTight ATM300 8W SE amp (WE300B's, Mullard 12Au7's etc.), Electraglide & Discovery PC, cryo'd outlets etc., Spendor LS35A vintage spkr's, Rix Rax custom designed stand, AudioNote Kondo KSL copper spkr wire.

When reviewed, lots of amps, which I like and think are critical to a system - like wire - Rowland, Plinius, Coda, Joule Eectra, Spectral, etc. Tons of wire (too much wire!!) etc.

Asa, Why the fixation on the Coda? This was a first meeting, it's purpose being an introduction to each other's systems, not components. The Coda's attributes did not get a fair shake played through the Spendors. The Dominus would have helped nothing, for the same reason. That is my point. If wires were the be all of components, his system would have bested mine. I have Kimber. Dominus MIGHT help me. I will gladly audition some. Where can I find a loaner?

I second Onhywy61's request.