Cable vs. Electronics: biggest bang for the buck

Psych:

Yes, just based upon construction costs, but a capitalistic system is based upon supply and demand dynamics; the system should be based upon cost IMHO, and competition forces should drive prices down, but with "unique" products cost of construction is negated, ie a painting. This is where the mega-buck cable manufacturers fall in performative terms, or so they would contend. The question then becomes: is the performance worth it to you, in the context of such an economic system? Again it is relative. Reject the premise of the system, the capitalistic God, or reject the idea that mega-buck wire is unique. Saying it is not unique may be an argument, ie mega-buck cable is not sufficiently different in performance terms than cheaper stuff, but unless you make that argument, you can not point to construction expense as the determinitive factor in determining marginal utility, or value of use (read: performance). A factor to look at, but one that becomes incresingly irrelevant as demand increases and you have uniqueness of product. The mega-buck cables prices suffered from both, as did all components. Specifically, in the 90's the Japanese SE market propelled prices exponentially higher, and particularly in wire like Purist and NBS that excell at stae of the art tube systems; the Nordost Valhallas/SPM's which are consumed by bothe SS and tube afficionados came later. We are still suffering from this escalation. And although I may consider its escalation artificially high based upon irrationally high demand, capitalism doesn't care about irrational demand or not; it absorbs infinite greed, buying or selling.

So, again, you are left with the idea that people are stupid to pay so much. But then again, our economy is premised upon the climb towards such objects, the incentive to become "somebody" through acquisition. If you want to argue that some buy mega-buck cable simply to say they are owners, adding to their idea of themselves, that's a valid argument because surely it occurs. But again, is it determinitive of value in terms of performance?

Yes, agreed, extrusion of metal is not as complex form of construction as an amp, either in terms of matter arrangement or labor or means of production. But if that technology performs better, regardless of those factors, and IF it cost you nothing, which one would you pick?

You see, its the COST OF PURCHASE that bothers people, the $7K, not the construction cost. But if you were to make that argument, then you would have to argue that the cost of other "components" in a stereo is also not justified based upon construction complexity, ie. a tractor would have more absolute "value" than an amp because its more complex. You know why that doesn't sound right, like comparing apples and oranges? Because value is not to be considered in a vacuum but considered in terms of a tool's USE. "Use" describes, in stereo terms, its performance - so there you are back to that.

Then, you are left making the argument that construction costs do not justify that level of performance, the DISPARITY thing again. But again, that's relative based upon income and you desire (your demand).

Is a Van Gogh worth $54 mil? Should wire be considered tha "unique", or since the NBS's of the world have been caught up with by the Virtual Dynamics of the world, is the disparity not justified.

I would say incresingly less so, and thankfully so. But yet, the Dominus does "do" something in state-of the-art systems that people who have them say is critical - the space and harmonics thing. Is that true, or are the Porter's and HP's of the world merely hearing things?

Hardly Asa, they are not hearing things. I've edged closer to what I consider to be a live rendering of instruments and voices in real space by the judicious use of cables. There is no doubt about that and I am not finished with this process.

Sorry about the delay. my computer ate my monologue. It was a lot more fun and spontaneous than this will be.

Asa, I knew it was a bad idea when I opened a private dialogue with you. I Had been warned that you might use underhanded antics of injecting excerpts from private mail exchange where it suited you .

Such a breech of conduct puts a pallor on my writing. You know you can be abrasive. You have even, on occasion, excused yourself in subsequent posts, invoking excuses like drunkenness and colds.

re: my last post. You continue to inject your disingenuous spin on my sober account of my audio system comparison. Nrchy’s questions that I quoted speak for themselves, Nrchy’s late seemingly coerced “clarification” not with standing. His questions have legs of their own and it was to those questions I addressed. It should be obvious there is no need for the name Dominus to be interjected into my example. My point was, and still is, there are many thousands of budding audio enthusiasts who have been slid down hyped wire. Yes, I am proud to have influenced my neighbor. He was throwing money down a rat hole “improving” his wires. Now he is attending the basics of good home audio, like replacing his Spendors (how's yours, Asa....If you need advice...).

My neighbor’s quote, once again:

“The mid and high frequencies from your system are fantastic!, that rig
really brings out the expressive qualities of the musician. Hope to hear
more stuff there soon.”

re: My lowfy system: I used an abbreviated equipment list because it was simply not germane to my conclusion. Yes I do have a pre amp, the Pass Labs Aleph P. My main players are all first rate, thankyou. Three of the four were graded SP A, though that’s not why I chose them. The Jolida 100 with NOS tubes is little known, but who cares? At $900 It is the best buy out there for great sound. The Aleph P is wonderfully engineered by Nelson Pass who’s wizardry is obvious on his current X and XA amps. I have the Pass X-150. I use balanced play because that is when the super symmetry circuit kicks in. All audible “white noise” is canceled without the use of feedback. Sheer genius. Even the faintest anomalies present with various tubes in the front end are faithfully passed on to the listener without a hint of veiling ss nasties. Next there is the room. One needs a great room when using large dipoles. Mine is a large rectangular stiff plaster and panel room. Its ten foot ceilings are cross beamed. Now you need a great speaker that can articulate those faintest of signals.That is what the Apogee Duetta Signature is for.The big Apogees first impress you with a wall of sound, then lets your hair down wiith it’s holographic staging and imaging. All the uncanny tactilenss of musicians in their venue environments is captured. Asa, you could do a lot better with your speaker choices. I don’t see how you are enjoying underlying nuances if your speaker is not as fast or uncolored as a ribbon. Then again, your insistance on utilizing microphonioc impared tube gear for the sake of ”air” precludes you from any source nuances anyway.

Anyway, have fun zoning out on the color pink. It occurs to me you are not mollified by your noise floor focus system. You wouldn’t be so irritable. Oh well, this is not a forum made for personal jousting. I’ve made my piece perfectly clear to the willing listener, and will not be returning to this particular thread. Til another discussion....

Wow Asa, as I was about to click the submit button I read your last post. Right on good man! I take back all the bad stuff I said....After I post.

So, Nrchy you want to start the Groucho Wire Co. w/ me? We can start selling stock....we'll even give the Audiogon staff stock options. Extruded super duper cabling for the recording industry & audio enthusiast. Profit = (margin x volume), right?

Let's find an extruder in Mexico--I've got the connections (companies like Extrumex) and the CD ROMs. Did I forget to mention my girlfriends in Monterrey? They dance for a living! I'm sure you will find them appealling-- I am a man of good taste...

Sounds like a good project--send me a few Dominus for evaluation!

Muralman, don't say nasty personalized things to people that you are afraid to be heard. If you talk with different degrees of nicety depending upon your audience vs. anonymity, well, we're back to that self-reflection thing again. I told you, given my accepting of your "Peace" gesture, that your continued nastiness in private was "tactless" and told you, on that basis, that I wouldn't talk to you privately any longer. Yes, I can see why you wouldn't want to talk about it. Now, insinuating drunkeness, that's petty - and I would say, once more a symptom of what I've been saying about your credibility and inability to put your views forward authentically, shifting contexts when it suits or when you don't want to respond in a forthright manner. My, what a memory.

On your system, once again you are putting words in my mouth, even though I've told you before differently and you know so. Specifically, I have told you before that I respect the Pass stuff, and your own amp too. I've also said that I liked your Jolida, especially with the NOS tubes - a nice 'lil piece (and a very good buy at $900 and a good choice IN THAT CONTEXT). But again, my citing of your system and its limitations - which you still have not conceded or sufficiently addressed beyond a quote from your neighbor, and now saying that any speaker not ribbon-based is inherently inferior and implying that all tube gear by its nature can not get you close to the source - is the point, and especially given the context of your absolutist statements concerning wire like the Dominus (even though now you seem, in between statements of converting others, to be backing away from).

This was never a thread seeking to warn "budding" audiophiles away from the evils of over-priced wire, nor did it ever exclude consideration of wire such as the Dominus; in fact, discussing Dominus and Dominus-like wire was its main thrust. It was an in-depth discussion of many issues, many of which you engaged in. To now claim, after your assumptions and empiric methodologies have been questioned, that it was always something else is, again, a manifestation of your inauthenticity.

Yes, I can loose my patience, but most always with people who act like you do, publicly or privately. Its a disappointment given your intellect and intelligence.

Now, shoo shoo, fly away.