Cable vs. Electronics: biggest bang for the buck

Clueless!! I'm sorry, really, I should have put a smiley face with it because that was how I meant it; the "uh's" weren't meant to be patronizing. I enjoyed your post VERY much. I've needled you in the past, I forgot, and should have clarified my tone better, somehow.

Actually, we look at things the same pretty much, historically speaking. My only point was that the experiment in democracy, much less secularized democracy, has hardly been done at all. I don't see that we are living in a democracy, not the way we define it. We live in a nation-state effectively controlled by a transitory corporate aristocracy. I don't think a true democracy would ever operate as its primary assumption infinite greed. I'm not saying you believe this strong, but thought I was teeing one up for you.

On Newtonian. Yea, I agree, and probably only 10% of the population gets it this way. Unfortunately, that is not where the center of gravity, so to speak, of western culture exists - how it behaves and the assumptions thatunderly that behavior - both historically and evolutionarily. Yes, Einstein, Heisenberg, etc. showed us different ways to see the world of matter and energy, but the meaning of those views have not seeped very far into the collective mind, at least not yet. Scientific materialism - with its power to change matter and give ever-changing products - is in an integral dynamic with capitalism, each supporting the other, each supporting the assumptions of the other, notwithstanding Einstein's discoveries that there are other ways to look at reality beyond Galileo's machine, or Descartes method. Capitalism is just fine with Newtonian abilities to produce technology; it doesn't need Einsteinian space/time paradoxes or quantum energy theories (so far...) to get its people to want the next product-thing. We were probably talking about different levels of seeing this; one whether Einstein's ideas mean the eventual "overturning" of Cartesianism, and the other saying that that hasn't happened yet for the collective western mind. BTW, I don't think it will be "overturned", but eventually, integrated. What is overturned is not the knowledge itself, but people's desire to not see more - which is something I talked about eatlier.

Again, my apologies for not being more clear. I really enjoyed what you had to say.

Detlof: thank you for sharing your knowledge on Jung. I've enjoyed it very very much. I don't know that much about him, but thought if I kept at it long enough something would get going; or, form from that karmic energy. Very happy; learned much!! Heard smart people talk about meaning, hey, that makes me feel good. Pretty basic, really.

And, yes, clueless, the ideas aren't important, but the comaraderie is. Detlof pegs me good. I only challenge, never attack, inauthenticity. Dislodge it, so to speak. That said, I never thought you were being inauthentic in what you said just now. The opposite actually. So even though we may disagree now and again in ideas, its "good" nonetheless.

Clueless, you are a part of that/this karmic energy. Don't you know, that's why we are all here?

Asa, since you said that "I am being disingenuous", and the reason I said "beneath is not", because I am not interested-in your thinking, nor opinions. What am looking for is what you see, or know. Maybe I am shooting in the dark. I am not trying to be a teacher; I am not the one who wrote three pages of texts. Yes that's what it is, text. You are right! Maybe I should explain when I said, "beneath is not". Here is how I see the language is limitless.

This heaven is so vast no messages stain it.

Pure and simple, if you give me that, I quit the thread. Or even if you don't give me that, I still quit the thread. Have fun.

Dear friends, having always felt a bit uneasy in using this space about discussions on Jung, I want to thank Nrchy and of course also Arnie for lending us their space. I've enjoyed the discussion immensely, learnt from it and felt in excellent company, but now I want to call it closed. Please contact me personally if more questions arise. I want to open a thread about a question which has bugged me for decades, namely what is the essence of musicality and why is it, that music does to us, what it does. In fact, what does it and why. The question became even more burning, as I pondered the reason, why Carl Jung obviously so had to shy away from this experience. I sincerely hope, you will join me in this thread and give me food for thought. Bless Ya All and thanks! Detlof

6ch: I guess I don't understand how you can respond to me with a smiley face, and then, once you've had a day to let your mind go over it, come back with a response that's not so smiley. Who needs the mirror?

An enlightened being not interested in what others say (all thought presented in dialogue is "opinion", but need not be judgement) and taking a day to work himself up just to say he's not going to say anything. Hmmm.

6ch, you want to be the "Zen Master" you've read so much about. If you can't be that, then you quit. Its your mirror.

Thank you all, you too 6ch.

Clueless, sorry that you couldn't respond to my olive branch. Try not to save that feeling for the next thread.

Closed.