A Little Hypocrisy?

Well, alluding to the above argument about piracy, perhaps the market will not bear what retailers charge for CDs. And I believe the industry just got nailed with price fixing fines, although I don't think they admitted "any wrong doing". So what the "market will bear" has little relevance where organized anti-competitive practices are in effect.

Secondly, most non-Audiogon folks buy only one or two audio systems and keep them for few to many years. On the other hand, most people purchase hundreds of CDs and treat them as the ephemera they usually are. It's typical for the total expenditure on software to exceed that for hardware, except at the very high end of audio.

Also, now that I have answered seriously, this thread is a troll. People complain about the reportedly very high list price to driver cost of Wilson products regularly, for example. Note also the recent BMW priced phono stage (this is not metaphorical) reviewed in S'phile (unwilling to dig the issue out of my reading stack to get the facts). The reviewer liked the component, but acknowledged in so many words that the price is problematic.

Very simple: hardware, the more money spent, the better the sound. Software: heuh, geez, I just spent all my money on the hardware, euh, darn, I guess I'll take out my old vinyl...

Bomarc - my point, at least, is that the music industry is the one complaining about the injustices of the marketplace instead of adapting. I have adapted equally on both the purchases of high-end audio gear and audio software - I would say that my system cost me, overall, about 60% of list price. My software has cost me, overall, about 60% of list price.

My complaint is one of buying 200-250 CDs a year legally, not downloading or copying other peoples' CDs at all, and then watching this industry lump me in with their problems. They can't ween themselves from the cash cows they've created but they're mad that the cash cows aren't as lucrative as they used to be. I am representative of their market, as many others on this board are. They're not doing a damn thing to better serve me and, worse, are working hard to lessen the value proposition.

Yes, we can all stop buying. I will return any CD that has copy protection on it.

The original premise of the thread was that we shouldn't complain about the price of CDs if we're not complaining about the price of high-end gear. If people weren't complaining about the price of high-end gear, they wouldn't be coming to Audiogon to shop used from relative strangers for the purposes of saving money. I think we, as a community, feel the price of both are out of whack, at least to an extent.

Two wrongs don't make a right!

It's true, the high end is rife with overpriced components. The price of cable in particular is ludicrous.

However, I recently started a thread about why the price of a CD is higher than $9.99. I used to buy a lot of CDs at this price in the late 1980's. The mantra was that the cost would go DOWN as people increasingly turned to the format, production ramped up, and costs to make a CD dropped. Well, guess what? The world has adopted CD, production is as high as it was ever dreamed of being, and costs have gone from dollars per CD to cents per CD. Yet, prices have RISEN.

Based on that, I say don't waste your time chasing 14 year olds who are ripping CDs for pennies on dad's computer which came with a CD - R drive. And, don't think that going after websites like Napster will result in anything more than you swatting flies. And, don't put your hopes into SACD and DVD - A as being your cocoon, DVD writers are already becoming popular, and you know that we'll be able to burn SACDs sooner than you think.

If Sony wants SACD to take off, start punching single format(yeah, no hybrids) discs out for acts like Limp Biskit, Nelly, N'Sync, Wu Tang Clan, and Biohazard at $9.99. Pull the plug on CD altogether. When Generation Y discovers they need to go buy a new $99 Sony SACD player to listen to the disc, Best Buy and Circuit City won't be able to keep their shelves stocked, and you won't be able to produce enough players. Then, in a year or so, the players will start showing up in Mazdas.

I would say "Screw You!" to record company executives like this, but I don't have to. Their fate is already cast.

Playing devil's advocate as I am wont to do on occasion...

Looking at the economics of the situation (letting work spill over into the hobby), it appears the general gist of responses above concludes that the manufacturing cost of CDs is quite low and artists don't get much of the price of the CD. If it's not the artist or the CD stamper/manufacturer, that suggests all who think the price of CDs is outrageous thinks either the workers or owners involved in the business of music distribution are gouging consumers. I say, look at the result.

I, for one, would wish that those employed in the business get paid so they could support families and loved ones, provide for children's education, their own retirement, and if there is justice in this world, also provide them with the means to pursue their hobbies like we pursue ours. At the same time, I had not been under the impression that employees of the music distribution industry are disproportionately highly paid in comparison with other people. The ownership of the business is either private owners or publicly-owned companies (the vast majority of sales), meaning those who own stock in those companies through their investments, pension plans and retirement plans, etc. The businesses of manufacturing the software, promoting it, physically distributing it, or selling it by retail/internet are all businesses with low barrier to entry. I am also not convinced that shareholders of Sony, Philips, CircuitCity, and Borders are necessarily happy campers over the past five years either (Sony & Circuit City basically zero return, Philips -15%, Borders -25%). Amazon, BestBuy, and Walmart are up quite a bit, some of that may be from business other than CDs.

Personally, I believe music distribution is just like any other business. There is a demand curve, a supply curve (combination of cost of doing business, and profit (capital providers either deserve it or not but that is more of a political/philosophical question)), and the price point per product unit is the sweet spot where the two meet.

Some questions for those of who feel music software prices are too high...
1) What is the appropriate total value of the compensation and profit of the entire music software business?
2) If prices were to drop in half, would you buy twice as much music? [think about the consequences]
3) Are postage stamps overpriced because they cost 100x the "cost" of production? Are postal workers overpaid?
4) Are 850 baseball players worth $2bn in salary a year?

My answers to the questions above are 1) I hadn't thought about it until now and have no good idea even now, 2) probably yes but perhaps not (I only have a certain amount of time to listen to music), 3) No, 1st class airmail postage is one of the bargains in this world, 4) Probably, because that was the total salary of 854 major leaguers as of the start of the 2001 season.

That and $3 will get you a $3 coffee. But think about a $3 coffee... is it really worth $3? What's the cost of the beans and the ... OK Travis, get a life...