CD v.s LP - When comming from the same MASTER


This has probably been discussed to death but after reading a few posts its a little unclear to me still.

Some artists today are releasing albums on LP format as well as CD format. If a C.D and an LP (LP's made today)came from the same MASTER DIGITAL SOURCE at the same release time. Would the LP format always sound better? or because it came from digital, might as well get the C.D?

Whatcha think
agent193f7c5
An afterthought...Some of the very first stereo LPs, Audio Fidelity "Dukes of Dixieland" did not sum the bass, at least that I can detect on my system. Some of the very first stereo recordings (Vanguard in particular) also stuck with two microphones, and that also was better than early attempts at multitrack recording. Sometimes progress goes the wrong way.
I agree that there are problems to be overcome with the analog playback system, and also the recording of records.

My take on this is that at least the analog system has the continuous waveforms recorded into it and can attempt to play them back, and the difficulties in this task are largely in the realm of the playback system to extract from the grooves. If the TT/arm/cart are up to it, almost all of the information can be brought into the system, albeit with some distortion caused by the recording process, and some caused by the playback system.

With the digital system, the sampling process is, by definition, not continuous, and as a result only a portion of the actual music is even recorded. So the many of the significant problems with digital actually occur at the master recording stage and the redbook conversion, with certain amounts of the music being left on the floor during the sampling process. Once this occurs the music is limited at that level, and cannot be recovered. So, even a top-quality esoteric digital player that makes a near perfect reproduction of the master is limited in information by the recording itself.

Maybe some feel that the Nyquist theory is valid and this is not an issue. In the gross sense, I think the Nyquist theory is valid. But not in the ultimate sense. There is a point where analog recordings can exceed the informational transfer of digital recordings, provided the analog recording is decent enough to begin with, and the analog playback equipment is decent enough to extract more information from the record than a digital recording can make. It is at this point(and above) where the analog medium begins to show its stuff. This is why people make the move to analog gear. If there was no difference, they wouldn't do it, because digital is clearly more convenient and more accessible in every way.

So, analog with all its warts(and there are many) can still provide a higher degree of music information transfer into the audio system than digital can. At the lower, more mass market levels, this may not be obvious because the analog gear is not precision enough to show the difference. At the higher levels, it is clearly obvious. I recently had a discussion with a person who has a listening buddy who has had some of the finest digital gear in existence, price no object. He currently has the latest Meitner gear, which is really, really good. He also has a very fine turntable(that cost about half what the Meitner digital gear did). The turntable exceeds the Meitner gear, and all of the other digital gear.

This could not be so, if the digital stuff fully captured the recording, and that is why I state that the digital recording processes are the limiting factor. I am fully aware that the digital stuff has a theoretical dynamic range advantage. I am aware that the background noise can be less with digital. I am aware of the "lossless" conversions concept. I know about the Nyquist theory. I know that digital has all kinds of advantages at the consumer end. And I accept all of that. But the bottom line is that it is limited by the very sampling technology that makes digital possible in the first place. It does not record the full waveforms. And when you reach the higher levels of performance, the advantages of analog(in music information transfer) show themselves.

So, what does this have to do with the main topic at hand. Just this: that the limitations of digital are primarily in the recording stage, and the limitations of analog are primarily in the playback stage. To refer back to the original question, I submit that the digital master will be more limited by the recording, the result will be that the advantages of analog playback will not be as well able to show themselves, compared to using an analog master. Therefore the differences between the CD and the LP from a digital master will be less distinct.

I know that this may be somewhat controversial, but I'm sticking to it.
Twl...You make sense. Mostly.
The Nyquist criteria calls for sampling to be at twice the highest frequency of interest: if this is true the analog waveform is represented without error. BUT...Nyquist was talking about sine waves. Music is not a sine wave. That's why the CD sampling frequency of 44.1 KHz is not adequite. In my experience (non audio) sampling at about four times the highest frequency of interest was useful. (Higher a waste of time).

Analog recordings TRY to reproduce the signal in a continuous manner, but HF filtering gets in the way. A LP can be "read out" with an optical microscope instead of a phono pickup. A few exceptional recordings have groove modulations up to 22 KHz. If the wiggles are not in the vinyl you can't say that the audio system responds.
The Nyquist criteria calls for sampling to be at twice the highest frequency of interest: if this is true the analog waveform is represented without error. BUT...Nyquist was talking about sine waves. Music is not a sine wave.

That's not quite true. The Nyquist Theorem states:

To represent in the digital domain a signal containing frequency components up to FHz it is necessary to sample it at LEAST at 2F samples per second.
It is true that sampling at less than 1/2 the highest frequency gives rise to aliasing, creating components in the output after DAC that were not there to begin with. Obviously undesirable. But Nyquist used the phrase "at least" - sampling could be higher.

In theory, the waveform does not really matter. Music is a periodic waveform and the Fourier Theorem states that:

Any periodic waveform can be represented as a sum of harmonically related sine waves, each with a particular amplitude and phase ...
The mathematics is solid. Problems arise in the implementation.

Regards,
Apologies - I should not have used the word "periodic" when referring to music in the above. It's slightly misleading.

Regards,