Phew.
Let me see if I can make sense of this....
Firstly, I chose to use Belden 83802 as a 110v delivery cable (dedicated line) well before seeing or hearing of anybody's use or designs! That was over 2 years ago. I thereafter used leftover cable to make PCs. I found Chris' site later on, seeing that he too was using 83802 as a power cable. Small world! So Sean, I certainly didn't need to give credit to ANYBODY but a Belden catalog where I found the largest Teflon-dielectric, shielded, 2-3 conductor cable I could find.
Re the use of Teflon, I had a career in laboratoty instrument manufacture and QA during the 70s and early 80s. The use of various fluorocarbons (including, but not limited to, FEP, PTFE, PVDF et al) because of their low dielectric absorption and chemical inertness. I was intimately involved in R&D of tooling and molding these exotic, expensive plastics. I'm a co-inventor of a common lab tool called the "pipetman". Some of you may have heard of it. "Choosing" a relatively-available FEP dielectric is a no-brainer for me. The choice to use it goes back to the early 70s.
Larry, please! I'm not responsible for ANY uncredited copycating or plagiarism. I have MANY times told enquirers
that the materials in my PCKit can be used to make Chris' published "flavors", if asked specifically, and DO credit him with making public this application. But application it is...not a design. Choosing to use a readily available product for another application doesn't constitute protectable property, or at least it shouldn't. I don't expect to have to thank someone if I too decide to use clothesline to hand a swing!
I really don't understand all the noise around this. Anyone can pick from hundreds of existing cables from several manufacturers and use them for a proscribed, or novel use. Do understand that I am grateful to Bob C and Chris for their suggestion to audiophiles to DIY; I only proide an assembly of parts that allows them to do so. At these VERY low prices it helps to keep our hobby sane.
I also sell a power "box" consisting of a metal box with duplexes and a PC. Is someone about to come out of the woods and claim that was their idea too? I don't mean to belabor this. If the majority of readers feel that I've stepped on Chris' toes, then indeed I'm sorry...it wasn't my intent. I just am getting sick and tired of seeing and hearing about rampant profiteering in this aspect of music-reproduction, and wanted to help others. Chris has told folks how to fish. I'm providing them with VERY inexpensive
fishing gear so they can. I would think the focus here should shift to those who make HUNDREDS of dollars selling each example of asimilar "design", not $10!
Eagle, yes I've heard you. We're all using this cable for 110v use. It's designed for 24v use, as you've informed us.
It's rated to what, 300v and 200C? So 115v use with high rex audio equipment is a novel use. Belden didn't anticipate it, and never provided a tough enough outer jacket to meet in-wall residential use. I think I have this I'm NOT aware that the wire itself is not usable for in-wall 115v use. The problem is a mechanical abrasion one, not an electrical one, I surmise.
I can understand where a Belden rep told you it's not made for 115 residential use. They have to protect themselves from am after-market recommendation that they never sought approval for, etc.
I think it's VERY important to know whether it's technically acceptable to use this stuff inside a protective conduit. When I first discovered it I assumed that it's use as a "plenum" cable without conduit reflected a minimum outer jacket protective performance, not just a high temp rating. I also assumed that such use could involve all voltages approaching its recommendation. Seems yo make sense. What I didn't know is what I suspect is true: that the outer thin Teflon jacket isn't tough enough for unrestricted in-wall residential (ab)use.
My daughter needs the computer. Keep well, and again ,sorry if I've stepped on toes. As I get on in years and contemplate near-retirement work activity I would like to focus more on activity that "gives something back". I think that working part-time for about $10/hr helping like-minded folks enjoy their hobby affordably rather than get taken advantage of by $$$ snake-oil profiteers could be a small part of it. Didn't mean to ruffle feathers. Folks are grateful for my help, as I'm sure they are to Chris, Bob, Albert, Sean, et al.
Good Night.
Ern
PS Chris, please feel to give me a call. 781 483-3922
Let me see if I can make sense of this....
Firstly, I chose to use Belden 83802 as a 110v delivery cable (dedicated line) well before seeing or hearing of anybody's use or designs! That was over 2 years ago. I thereafter used leftover cable to make PCs. I found Chris' site later on, seeing that he too was using 83802 as a power cable. Small world! So Sean, I certainly didn't need to give credit to ANYBODY but a Belden catalog where I found the largest Teflon-dielectric, shielded, 2-3 conductor cable I could find.
Re the use of Teflon, I had a career in laboratoty instrument manufacture and QA during the 70s and early 80s. The use of various fluorocarbons (including, but not limited to, FEP, PTFE, PVDF et al) because of their low dielectric absorption and chemical inertness. I was intimately involved in R&D of tooling and molding these exotic, expensive plastics. I'm a co-inventor of a common lab tool called the "pipetman". Some of you may have heard of it. "Choosing" a relatively-available FEP dielectric is a no-brainer for me. The choice to use it goes back to the early 70s.
Larry, please! I'm not responsible for ANY uncredited copycating or plagiarism. I have MANY times told enquirers
that the materials in my PCKit can be used to make Chris' published "flavors", if asked specifically, and DO credit him with making public this application. But application it is...not a design. Choosing to use a readily available product for another application doesn't constitute protectable property, or at least it shouldn't. I don't expect to have to thank someone if I too decide to use clothesline to hand a swing!
I really don't understand all the noise around this. Anyone can pick from hundreds of existing cables from several manufacturers and use them for a proscribed, or novel use. Do understand that I am grateful to Bob C and Chris for their suggestion to audiophiles to DIY; I only proide an assembly of parts that allows them to do so. At these VERY low prices it helps to keep our hobby sane.
I also sell a power "box" consisting of a metal box with duplexes and a PC. Is someone about to come out of the woods and claim that was their idea too? I don't mean to belabor this. If the majority of readers feel that I've stepped on Chris' toes, then indeed I'm sorry...it wasn't my intent. I just am getting sick and tired of seeing and hearing about rampant profiteering in this aspect of music-reproduction, and wanted to help others. Chris has told folks how to fish. I'm providing them with VERY inexpensive
fishing gear so they can. I would think the focus here should shift to those who make HUNDREDS of dollars selling each example of asimilar "design", not $10!
Eagle, yes I've heard you. We're all using this cable for 110v use. It's designed for 24v use, as you've informed us.
It's rated to what, 300v and 200C? So 115v use with high rex audio equipment is a novel use. Belden didn't anticipate it, and never provided a tough enough outer jacket to meet in-wall residential use. I think I have this I'm NOT aware that the wire itself is not usable for in-wall 115v use. The problem is a mechanical abrasion one, not an electrical one, I surmise.
I can understand where a Belden rep told you it's not made for 115 residential use. They have to protect themselves from am after-market recommendation that they never sought approval for, etc.
I think it's VERY important to know whether it's technically acceptable to use this stuff inside a protective conduit. When I first discovered it I assumed that it's use as a "plenum" cable without conduit reflected a minimum outer jacket protective performance, not just a high temp rating. I also assumed that such use could involve all voltages approaching its recommendation. Seems yo make sense. What I didn't know is what I suspect is true: that the outer thin Teflon jacket isn't tough enough for unrestricted in-wall residential (ab)use.
My daughter needs the computer. Keep well, and again ,sorry if I've stepped on toes. As I get on in years and contemplate near-retirement work activity I would like to focus more on activity that "gives something back". I think that working part-time for about $10/hr helping like-minded folks enjoy their hobby affordably rather than get taken advantage of by $$$ snake-oil profiteers could be a small part of it. Didn't mean to ruffle feathers. Folks are grateful for my help, as I'm sure they are to Chris, Bob, Albert, Sean, et al.
Good Night.
Ern
PS Chris, please feel to give me a call. 781 483-3922
