2. digital
  3. 1009209295

Has anyone else ever reached an audio impasse?

Perhaps I should explain -

A friend of mine has a VERY high resolution system which would retail close to the $100K mark. Each component upgrade he has made over the years has been based upon comparison between components. He has built a fantastic system.

Now here is the problem -
Recently he and I compared his source CD player which is the top model currently available under 15K, against a Sony 9000 ES SACD/DVD player. We A/B compared them.

After extended listening, we found the differences to be so minor that it was difficult to detect which was better. We did the comparisons with Redbook CD vs SACD, RedBook vs. Redbook and still the 15K CD player was only marginally (.05%) better.

The 15K CD player had better more expensive interconnects and power cords than the Sony which was using a stock power cord an old Audioquest Topaz (cheap) interconnects.

In previous listening sessions over the past year we had compared the same Sony 9000 CD/DVD/SACD player against MANY other CD players ranging in price from 2000 all the way up to 7000 and on redbook CD's the Sony always got it's butt kicked! It sounded hollow - with a recessed midrange - electronic - over emphasized highs, etc.

Then - I took a 100 Toshiba DVD player to his house and tried it against his 15K CD player. It sounded the same as the Sony. In fact, the 100 Toshiba sounded as good if not better in some ways than the Sony DVD player but...still was .05% out classed by the 15K CD player.

With each source component in these auditions, the soundstage remained VERY large, images were perfect and tonal balance couldn't be better. The subtlety of the changes between the various source components would be best described as perceived rather than actual.

I am curious to know if anyone else has experienced this type of an impasse. I know the $100 DVD player should not sound like the 15K CD player (at least it never did before)
but it does now. Why??

Could there be a bottle-neck somewhere? Could the character of an pre or amplifier be so strong it restricts performance of a source component? What could cause this to happen?

Help please...
bwhite
bwhite OP
807 posts
 
Sean,

Thanks for the reply. I agree with you. We have tried various preamps (solid state and tube) and while the preamps have made a significant difference in the character of the sound overall, the differences between source components remains minimal (as described above).

We have been using vaarious high end cables/preamps and amplifiers.

Interesting to note here that with "cheap", sub $1000 preamps, it was simple to notice differences in source components.

As the quality and "performance" of the rest of the system increased, the impact made by various source components seemed to diminish, hence a 100 DVD player seemingly sounds as good as a 15,000 CD player in nearly every way.

Could it also be that the max resolution of the speakers has been acheived?

The speakers being used are Dynaudio Consequence. They are the flagship speaker which preceeded the 90K Evidence. ...So I seriously doubt this theory...

Even if the speakers were maxed out, it seems that soundstage depth, width, etc would change with various players.

What else could cause this?

Have you ever experienced a similar situation?
sugarbrie
3,854 posts
 
The biggest difference I find in better digital components is resolution of low frequency information along with a lower noise floor. I do not find much difference in the mids and highs. So how good is the rest of your system as far as noise floor and bass performance? I do not mean amount of bass, I mean quality. That could be the bottle neck??? The differences became even more evident after I added a higher end REL audiophile subwoofer.
detlof
1,899 posts
 
I would borrow a good pair of electrostats or two of those modern horn speakers and start experimenting again. After all, width and debth of soundstage isn't all. There is dynamics from pppp to ffff and the rendering of the right timbre of instruments. Try solo instruments, piano, violin, cello and voices- sopranos are especially good at full tilt boogie - and see if you don't notice more of a difference.
Happy listening!
cornfedboy
1,645 posts
 
the best preamp i've listened to over an extended period is the boulder 2010. my audio dealer and good friend has one that i've heard with numerous digital and analogue (lp) sources. the boulder makes everything run into it sound better but each source is still quite easily distinguishable from others. it is true that some lowerend dvd and cd players make adequate transports but i find it difficult to imagine that such players used with analogue out would outshine an upperend dac from, say, boulder, dcs, burmester or accuphase. as others have suggested, the impasse you are experiencing may be the speakers in the setup, tho i find that somewhat implausible given the sonic quality of the dynaudios. perhaps the problem lies in the listening environment itself. is the room a dedicated sound room with acoustic treatments or a multi-purpose area with some limiting characteristics? i'd be interested in learning.

this is a fascinating query. i wish i could offer some more advice. -cfb
tom_nice
387 posts
 
Would it be too radical to suggest that you try a passive preamp? But if you do, try to make it a good one--a ladder stepped attenuator would be (and in fact has been) my choice. Better still, if you can estimate the attenuation needed for a certain high quality CD, you could try a fixed attenuation network: one series resistor, one parallel (to ground), like each step in a ladder attenuator but without the switch contact. If you try a good passive, you might just conceivably not want to go back to active when the test is done. I've never regretted not going back, after having an active preamp--the CAT SL1 III--that some "experts" used to rave about.
More to discover