Has anyone else ever reached an audio impasse?


Perhaps I should explain -

A friend of mine has a VERY high resolution system which would retail close to the $100K mark. Each component upgrade he has made over the years has been based upon comparison between components. He has built a fantastic system.

Now here is the problem -
Recently he and I compared his source CD player which is the top model currently available under 15K, against a Sony 9000 ES SACD/DVD player. We A/B compared them.

After extended listening, we found the differences to be so minor that it was difficult to detect which was better. We did the comparisons with Redbook CD vs SACD, RedBook vs. Redbook and still the 15K CD player was only marginally (.05%) better.

The 15K CD player had better more expensive interconnects and power cords than the Sony which was using a stock power cord an old Audioquest Topaz (cheap) interconnects.

In previous listening sessions over the past year we had compared the same Sony 9000 CD/DVD/SACD player against MANY other CD players ranging in price from 2000 all the way up to 7000 and on redbook CD's the Sony always got it's butt kicked! It sounded hollow - with a recessed midrange - electronic - over emphasized highs, etc.

Then - I took a 100 Toshiba DVD player to his house and tried it against his 15K CD player. It sounded the same as the Sony. In fact, the 100 Toshiba sounded as good if not better in some ways than the Sony DVD player but...still was .05% out classed by the 15K CD player.

With each source component in these auditions, the soundstage remained VERY large, images were perfect and tonal balance couldn't be better. The subtlety of the changes between the various source components would be best described as perceived rather than actual.

I am curious to know if anyone else has experienced this type of an impasse. I know the $100 DVD player should not sound like the 15K CD player (at least it never did before)
but it does now. Why??

Could there be a bottle-neck somewhere? Could the character of an pre or amplifier be so strong it restricts performance of a source component? What could cause this to happen?

Help please...
bwhite
For the record, I "helped" Bwhite a bit in his system building - although, to be quite honest, I doubt he needs much help (he just doesn't know it yet...) - so I have more than a passing interest here. Bryan, how did the CJ pre that I suggested for comparison (ART, I see you picked...nice) compare to the Syrah, price aside? You had said you thought the Syrah was the culprit. Did the ART resolve that pre issue, but leave the alleged synergy issue, leaving you to still focus on source? I get the feeling that you are still ot sure if its pre or CD thats the problem. Frankly, so far, I can't tell either..

Well, I don't know whether its the culprit for the CD anomaly, but I think you may want to listen to Detlof (Hi, Detlof). He knows of where he speaks. And that "where" is, perhaps, about speakers, and particularly in musicality areas. The Dynaudios - beautiful drivers all - are voiced to load the initial transient with energy. This listening bias accentuates detail at the beginning of notes and leads the mind to "see" speed. Some speakers of this bias are spitty and others less so (lessened mechanical artifacts, ie distortion, like the Dynaudios). They are "accurate" to one degree or another, for lack of another word. Many times speakers designed with these listening criteria have performance limitations with regard to spatial qualities (the source sound is favored over the surrounding space). This is not a proportion issue in terms of quantitative measures like size, but an existential issue in terms of deep realism (how the stereo piece catalyzes one to seep deeper into the music, as opposed to thinking too much). To discern this deeper issue, and tune it to greater system integration, and regardless of the CD quandry, you may have to consider that the system you are arranging wants to present you with a musical experience that goes beyond detail-orientated speakers (and their designer's attendant musical values).

Swap in a world class speaker that is not detail-orientated and is not a current black hole for the amp (and, no, B&W's don't count). It may not matter, but I'd be interested in your long and short term reactions.

Asa - thanks for the response. The ART and Syrah are VERY close. Both are extremely liquid and wonderful - but I think the ART has a bit better bass than my Syrah - we haven't had time to do a fair comparison between the two since we have been more focused on the source components which all sound the same.

This is mind blowing and its making us second-guess all the decisions we've made in the past.

Just this morning however, my friend noticed a spark fly between his RCA interconnect and the RCA input on the CJ P8A as he changed interconnects. Shortly thereafter, he saw lots of smoke. Once he shut off power, and removed the interconnects, he found one of his Stealth PGS cables to be 2 1/2 inches shorter and burnt through to the outer mesh. The outer mesh actually changed color from a golden yellow to a crusty brown.

Initially, we thought it was the amp, we did some testing and discovered the wall outlet to be broken - it was cracked inside.

Something tells me the source components will start sounding like themselves again once the power problem is fixed.

An electrician is on the way!
YOW !!!! You bring up a good point about checking our electrical systems and checking what our insurance policies will cover. While i just changed a few outlets myself, i can imagine how fast your buddy's jaw dropped and heart sank when he saw what he did. Let's hope everything is okay. I'm kind of leary of that though, as it would take one helluva lot of juice to actually melt down an interconnect. Sean
>
My friend had two new dedicated circuits installed. So far there has been no smoke or fire. The electrician wired his system with 10 gague Romex strung to a pair of PS Audio Power Port AC recepticals. I have not listened yet but he claims this made a modest difference regarding the bandwidth of his amplifiers. He says the system seems "cleaner" but still notices no significant differences between source components. Bummer.
Look, I don't mean this as a joke at all: But when did he last have his hearing checked and his ears cleared out? I've had this happen to an audiophile collegue, whose ears had truly clogged up. Well, I thought of bringing this up, though improbable, nothing is impossible and I feel sorry for your friend and the plight he is in.
P.S: if nothing else helps, I would still try the speaker thing.....