I may suggest the ClasicAudioLoudspeaker T3.4,it is a horn speaker which I have in my bedroom.Fantastic for violin reproduction.Speakers are very efficient 100db/w.m at 16ohms.You can look them up on the web.They are sold manufacturer direct.They will sound best with tube amps.The imaging is spectacular,in my room they are not great for Mahler or Shostakovitch orchestral music but very good for chamber music.
Need a system for Chamber music--ideas?
My current system does well with larger scale works - orchestral, choral, etc, and also with solo works. Where it struggles is with chamber music. String quartets in partiuclar are a problem. It is essentially impossible to distinguish between the 1st and 2nd violins. Maggies are always going to struggle with this due to the side by side arrangement of the ribbon tweeters with the midrange panels. I could go two ways.
1. A completely distinct system in another room, using monitors. If I go this way, I might like a reccomendation on a tube integrated to pair with the speakers, and the speakers should be able to go close to the wall for flexibility. A concern here would be decent reproduction of piano-- don't want to create a new problem in listening to piano trios etc. I'd probably like to stay under 7K for the amp and speakers new or used.
2. A set of floor standing speakers or monitors to swing into place in my current system for listening to chamber. They should be below 80lbs each to facilitate moving. The maggies are going to stay for large scale works. I'll keep the current system in place, so the floor standers should work well (at least initialy) with high powered SS amps like my Cary 500.1's. Again, 7K-10K, new or used. Accurate timber and coherence, especially with violins, are imperitive. It will not be necessary for them to play above 90dB. Also, the speakers must be able to throw a convincing stage for string quartets. Speaker placement will be along a short wall in a 15.5 x 19 x 8' room. I do like the sound of Sonus Fabers. Might be open to Dali's. Wilsons in this price range are out, and I don't like Dynaudio, Theil, Aerial 7T's. Haven't heard Ref 3A Grand Veenas or Merlins but you hear good things about them. I will not buy speakers unheard, so I'm wanting to generate a list of speakers to audition. When I bought my maggies it was a 2 year process. Your thoughts please?
1. A completely distinct system in another room, using monitors. If I go this way, I might like a reccomendation on a tube integrated to pair with the speakers, and the speakers should be able to go close to the wall for flexibility. A concern here would be decent reproduction of piano-- don't want to create a new problem in listening to piano trios etc. I'd probably like to stay under 7K for the amp and speakers new or used.
2. A set of floor standing speakers or monitors to swing into place in my current system for listening to chamber. They should be below 80lbs each to facilitate moving. The maggies are going to stay for large scale works. I'll keep the current system in place, so the floor standers should work well (at least initialy) with high powered SS amps like my Cary 500.1's. Again, 7K-10K, new or used. Accurate timber and coherence, especially with violins, are imperitive. It will not be necessary for them to play above 90dB. Also, the speakers must be able to throw a convincing stage for string quartets. Speaker placement will be along a short wall in a 15.5 x 19 x 8' room. I do like the sound of Sonus Fabers. Might be open to Dali's. Wilsons in this price range are out, and I don't like Dynaudio, Theil, Aerial 7T's. Haven't heard Ref 3A Grand Veenas or Merlins but you hear good things about them. I will not buy speakers unheard, so I'm wanting to generate a list of speakers to audition. When I bought my maggies it was a 2 year process. Your thoughts please?
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Brownsfan, this thread got me thinking about returning to a project I started four (!) years ago and put aside. Sitting in my basement is a pair of MGIIIA'S that I used for about fifteen years until I lost the midrange sections on the panels due to corrosion of the wire grids. I had very heavily modified the Maggie's with upgraded xovers, wiring and removal of the socks (which, no doubt, was responsible for the corrosion). Anyway, I purchased the rebuild kit from Magnepan and never got around to it. I bring this up to point out that I am very familiar with the sound of the 3 series Maggies, and indeed, the sound of these speakers was spectacular in what was, at the time, an ideal room. Your 3.7's are clearly a much improved speaker over the stock MG3A. What makes these speakers stand apart from the Maggies lower in the lineup, is that amazing ribbon tweeter. The problem with discontinuity between the midrange and tweeter is much improved with the 3.7's, but it is still there to a degree. After living with these speakers for so many years I became convinced that the issue was not one of tweeter level nor xover point, but of a qualitative difference between the mid and tweeter which contributed to the problem in the playback of chamber works that you are trying to solve. I believe that this difference is part of what is contributing to the lack of separation of the two violins on string quartet recordings. The violins, having so much high frequency energy, both get "pulled" towards the ribbon tweeter element regardless of spatial location in the recording. It's not that the ribbon is doing anything wrong, but that the mid panel is not doing it as well. I found this to be more obvious on chamber works than on large orchestral works; although, in those as well, I would often hear the image of the flute or solo violin suddenly get pulled left or right towards the location of the tweeter ribbon. Why am bringing all this up? Have you considered, as your "chamber music speakers", a pair of the smaller Maggie's which don't use the ribbon tweeter? You obviously like the sound of Maggie's, and in many respects even the MMG's share many of the same attributes as your 3.7's, but in a smaller package and with, arguably, better integration of the mid and tweeter; even if the tweeter is not, in absolute terms, on the same level as the true ribbon. The rest of your gear is so good that a pair of MMG's would probably sound fantastic, would be easy to move around, and might solve the problem; and you have a sub that you have already integrated with Maggies. With a home trial available, you would have nothing to lose. Lastly, if you find they at least have potential, if you are not familiar with Peter Gunn's mods, check this out: [URL]http://www.indiespinzone.com/magnestand.html[/URL] Good luck. |
Frogman, I love deep thinkers. As usual, you comments are golden, and you articulated well my thoughts on the violin problem. To answer your question, no, I had not thought about a pair of MMG's. I've heard them, and they are great for the money. I'm going to have to chew on that idea a bit. Unfortunately, the maggie dealer here closed, but I could still do an in home trial. I have thought very, very seriously about your initial suggestion regarding the Stax and Quads. I have a faint memory of the Stax speakers when they were new, and recall that they were very will regarded. I have not heard them. Do you think the stax could be moved around fairly easily, or would there be risk of damage? I am in a position to be patient for another restored pair to come up for sale. On the quads, I could see using them in a separate basement system eventually and driving them with a nice integrated tube amp. I would think my 1000wpc Cary's might get the quads into trouble pretty quickly no matter how careful I am. Since I opened this thread, I had a chance to listen to some chamber on a friends 50K system using Joseph speakers. I came out of that session wondering if I am just not expecting too much. I heard a similar presentation on his system. The Maggies are going to smear violins because of the design. I think you are right, the discontinuity between the ribbons and quasi ribbons is substantially decreased, but it isn't zero. I wonder if the dipole design is not also a contributor. But still, the comparison with my friends system was a good calibration. I'm going to need to think long and hard about how to proceed, and do plenty of auditioning. |
Wow, what a nice compliment; thanks. The Stax are very easy to move around, being considerably smaller than the Quads. Don't know if you have seen/read these, but you may find these links interesting: http://www.estatsolution.com/index.php?bod=7 http://www.onethingaudio.net/FOR/QUA/63/9512-QUA-63-REV-CS5.htm Regards. |
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