Speaker Wire for a non-anal listener

You guys are right, I came off a bit harsh. I was thinking about it as I was logging in here. I am very grateful for all the responses. I just had my eyes opened when I read about how different frequencies travel across different kinds of wire, and basically, what characteristics need to be maximized or minimized in order to make a good speaker wire.
I'll assume that Tvad is referring to my disagreement with others on the type of wire in my price range, because those who listed expensive wire weren't responding very well to my original post.
Rsbeck, I wasn't referring to any blind testings per se, just surprised that absolutely no one recommended something that did well in that format, except maybe for Snofun. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if separate + & - makes for inductance, and zipcord has separate + & -, then wouldn't that make zipcord bad for inductance (amd possibly anticables too?)? As far as smaller wires working better for frequency response, read some articles on TNT, or just look at how some high end cables are designed.
Still, don't hate me because I disagreed with some opinions. If I don't take your advice, it's my loss, right? I seriously weighed almost everyone's post, and researched each item suggested. I just didn't have a starting point. Thanks again :)

Erikkellison: It's not the gauge so much as it is the depth of the conductor that causes skin effect. Using ANY type of stranded wire basically increases this problem, so using a smaller gauge stranded wire doesn't resolve the problem. This is why one needs to resort to something that has a large surface area to keep series resistance down but is also thin enough to remain mostly all "skin". Using multiple conductors for each polarity, regardless of how it is done, creates impedance variations between the various strands & polarities with further variances in the arrival times.

This is why heavy gauge low inductance "foil type" speaker cables both sound and measure the best. One path per polarity for consistent arrival times regardless of frequency, no skin effect, low series resistance, wide bandwidth, etc... Anything less than that is a compromise in at least one given category.

The cables that i suggested falter in several different areas, but they are still superior to many other more costly products. Like anything else though, how it sounds in a system is up to personal interpretation. Electrically speaking though, it is a winner and does quite well bang for the buck.

Then again, so does solid core 14 gauge from your local hardware store configured in a twisted pair arrangement. If you like more treble detail, you can reduce the gauge size to achieve the specific tonal balance that one seeks. If one is able to bi-wire, you can use a smaller gauge for the mids and treble and a heavier gauge for the woofer. Using such an approach reduces the damping factor of the circuit and lowers the dynamic current capacity that can be passed. Given that ALL amplifiers increase their output impedance as frequency rises, and distortion gets worse as frequency rises, using a smaller gauge that introduces even more potential for problems into the equation seems like putting the cart before the horse.

If you want to get technical, any "round" conductor that is heavier than appr 24 gauge should not be used if shooting for the ultimate in signal purity. If used as as speaker cable, you'll have no bass and the system will lack dynamics, so that's why the smarter cable manufacturers resorted to flat conductors. You get the best of both worlds without the drawbacks. You can maintain a low series resistance due to having a heavy gauge conductor working for you but skin effect isn't a problem either. Like i said, any other approach is a compromise in at least one area of measurable performance. Sean
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PS.... TNT has nothing on the research that Jung, Marsh and Pass conducted 25+ years ago. Why learn from second-hand sources when you can go to the original information sources and get it from the horses mouth???

>>Rsbeck, I wasn't referring to any blind testings per se, just surprised that
absolutely no one recommended something that did well in that format,<<

There isn't any body of double blind testing so how could anyone draw from
such evidence in order to recommend cables?

>>Correct me if I'm wrong, but if separate + & - makes for inductance, and
zipcord has separate + & -, then wouldn't that make zipcord bad for
inductance<<

No. In Zip Cord, the positive and negative are attached -- they run in
parallel.

>>(amd possibly anticables too?)?<<

In the anti-cables, the positive and negative are completely unattached and
left to dangle apart from one another -- that's what causes high inductance.

>>As far as smaller wires working better for frequency response, read some
articles on TNT<<

People say all kinds of things about cables and many of them sound really
authoritative, but just because someone mentions something like "skin
effect" for example and just because there *is* such a thing as skin
effect, there is absolutely zero evidence that this causes any audible effect at
audio frequencies. Same with the idea that high frequencies "like"
thinner gauged cable. People say stuff like this and it sounds ominoust, but
there is no evidence that this has any effect.

If you're a blind study guy -- ask anyone who tells you about skin effect or
how high frequencies like to travel on thinner wires to show you the blind
studies to show that anyone can hear such things.

>>or just look at how some high end cables are designed.<<

Yes, many of them are designed poorly.

>>If I don't take your advice, it's my loss, right?<<

I don't care which advice you follow, I just think there ought to be a good
discussion about these things. Otherwise, one would get the false impression
that there is no controversy about things like skin effect or that high
frequencies like to travel on thinner gauged cables.

>>I seriously weighed almost everyone's post, and researched each item
suggested. I just didn't have a starting point. Thanks again :)<<

If you want to research cables, you ought to know that there are at least two
sides to the debate -- there is absolutely no concensus. If you want to get
the skeptic position -- here is a good place to start.

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/audioprinciples/cables.htm

If you are looking for the best for the money anything, will it ever be anything but the cheapest? I have never understood this concept. Now when you want to dismiss others who have better sounding systems which cost more money, you can always state that they wasted their money for a minor improvement. They in turn are unlikely to be impressed with your logic.