Absolute top tier DAC for standard res Redbook CD


Hi All.

Putting together a reference level system.
My Source is predominantly standard 16/44 played from a MacMini using iTunes and Amarra. Some of my music is purchased from iTunes and the rest is ripped from standard CD's.
For my tastes in music, my high def catalogues are still limited; so Redbook 16/44 will be my primary source for quite some time.

I'm not spending DCS or MSB money. But $15-20k retail is not out of the question.

Upsampling vs non-upsampling?
USB input vs SPDIF?

All opinions welcome.

And I know I need to hear them, but getting these ultra $$$ DAC's into your house for an audition ain't easy.

Looking for musical, emotional, engaging, accurate , with great dimension. Not looking for analytical and sterile.
mattnshilp
To Audiolabyrinth:

Sorry, forgot to mention the option of using any digital transport you like via S/PDIF or AES/EBU digital connections, but I am really thinking high-res only.
DSD to be exact. I don't remember when I listened to PCM last time, seems like never. :-)

Of course, any PCM digital source used with the above mentioned inputs will be converted to DSD64 or double DSD128. You choose which one you like better by pressing a button on the remote in real time. :-)

Best wishes,
Alex Peychev
APL Hi-Fi
UPDATE:

Initial impressions of the DSD-S

As Alex requested: I used his power cord, his USB cable, plugged the DAC directly into the wall and uploaded Audirvana. The DSD-S had been running with source for a solid week straight (24/7) prior to today's listening.

Maybe it's because I don't really have a comparison DAC (since my brand new ODSE is but an infant with nary an electron through its juvenile microchips), but I am having a hard time pinning down the DSD-S's true nature.

As I previously said, it is well built and represents its cost and quality without any doubt. Alex confirmed that the DAC arrived to me, hand delivered, in its inner box only and that it is double boxed for shipping. He also said that he will work on adding more foam to the packaging just to give the look and sense of more secure packaging, even though what it comes with is tested and safe. I appreciated his open attitude.

My biggest initial impression is that it's not yet fully burned in. It has about 468'ish hours on it. I'm thinking at least 700 to fully break in, maybe more. It reminds me of the Aeris. I sense greatness, but it doesn't seam to be there just yet.

As such, I am calling everything I report right now as a solid first impression. After this, I'm going to hook it up to a DVD player and throw a cd on repeat and run spdif into the DSD-S for 30 days. That'l put a total of over 1150 hours on it. That will certainly be enough to stabilize the DSD-S rather thoroughly.

That said, it is currently very very good. In certain ways, it has already bested the Aeris (imaging and soundstage) but it's sonic reality (for lack of any other descriptor) isn't as full as the Aeris was at this point in burn in. The Aeris gave me a better sense of scale at 500 hours.

That brightness I mentioned is completely gone. Extended highs and Earth shattering lows abound; all of the DAC's at this top level do this well... Extension up and down is unrestricted. I found the midrange satisfying but not mesmerizing, yet. As I said, hints and suggestions of more to come. Like watching Mozart learn to play piano....

It's imaging is rather stunning, although I found that with certain very specific passages, there seamed to be a shift to the left of only certain instruments, while others stay central. It's really weird. The vocal will stay perfectly center stage, but the drum (which I know well and fully expect smack dab in between center and right speaker) is just a shade to the right of midline; while the matching left drum should be between center and left speaker is just a breath away from the left speaker. Very specifically located, just not in the spot I expected them to be. But center stays center. It happened twice. Other then that, imaging was dead accurate and everything was exactly where it belonged. The soundstage was quite wide and deep. A bit closer then the ODSE and further then the Aeris in seating position. But I think listening position is subjective and personal, and therefore not super important. The soundstage was also well defined. The DSD-D did a great job of positioning something really close to the speaker while not sounding like it's coming directly from that speaker. The word "control" kept popping up in my mind. I was more aware of certain secondary special affects and quiet accompanying instruments and there presence to define the overal performance with the DSD-S then with any of the other DAC's.

Leading and trailing edges were very nicely defined and lasted just as long as they should. Again. Control. Same with the low frequencies - tight, well controlled, deep and musical; not loose or flabby.

I mentioned this before, but the midrange left me wanted more. Maybe it was too controlled. But I felt like I I was on the verge of something bigger. We shall see.

I can say, bluntly, that I spent a lot of time critically listening and less time LITM (Lost In The Music). It happened, but not like when I was listening to the ODSE (not my current juvenile one but the fully broken in demo unit Steve lent me). I think that midrange was holding me back...

I would equate its performance to the Meitner MA1 without the brightness. Now to keel things in perspective, let's realize I am comparing some of the best DAC's ever made. My findings are SO subtle. The midrange of the DSD-S is not weak by any stretch; it's just not yet where I think it will be in another few hundred hours of cooking.

The DSD-S is clearly a solid state DAC. The ODSE gives more of a sense of tubes hidden within its solid state circuits; it's got a tube soul.

I don't know if that's really useful to anyone. I feel like this one was hard. And since it's clearly not fully burned in I don't want anyone to make a decision based on my statements here. Not until it gets way more hours.

Alex has implied that his USB conversion tech is SOTA and trumps all else out there. It synced flawlessly and i think that imaging benefits dramatically from that XMOS chip. I don't know enough to say more then that. I don't really know how to audibly seperate the USB conversion from the DAC itself other then to just evaluate the parts as a whole system.

If someone were to force me to make a list right now of all the DAC's I have heard I would probably say, fav to least fav (i'm gonna get SO much $#!+ for this!!!):
ODSE
Aeris
DSD-S
Lampy Big 6
Meitner MA-1
PS Audio Direct Stream
PS Audio Perfect Wave 2

Considering the DSD-S is not fully broken in, that's a pretty good start!

I did also listen to it direct to my amps. Sorry Alex, I just prefer my music run through my Criterion. Maybe it adds noise or warmth or whatever, but it's more musical and more engaging to me running through my limited edition uber Rowland Criterion pre-amp. Although I will happily give you the complement of it being the closest to not needing a pre-amp of all those I have tried. I will remove the ODSE from that list as my biggest gripe with running the ODSE direct was that the volume control does not go down to inaudible. I didn't like having to rely on adjusting the volume on the computer to around my listening level and then fine tune the volume with the control on the ODSE itself. I want a volume knob that's goes from zero to ten, not 7 to 8.5 .

I'm sure I'll think of something else as soon as I hit Submit, but that's it for now.

I will listen again in 2 weeks to see how things progress. And then 30 days from now will be the final eval between my current champion ODSE and the DSD-S.

As Steve has said, he's working on an Off Ramp 6 that uses the XMOS USB tech that the DSD-S already uses, and an upgrade to integrate that tech into the ODSE.

And as Alex said, the DSD-S can have many parts upgraded to take it to the next level.

Here is my sincere impression... If you decided to go with either of these top tier DAC's, you would walk away with one of the best out there and enjoy your purchase for years to come. These guys BOTH seriously know what they are doing!!! As a buyer, and a very long time enthusiast, I learned something totally new during my current system built. I used to shy away for these small, "One man show" companies and gravitate towards the big guys. These "One man show" guys usually have 4-7 other people working for them and produce top level gear for fair prices that offer way more performance for the dollar then lost of the big name labels can. It's a simply a matter of overhead and production. For those of you who are on the fence, try a Merrill Audio, Empirical, APL, Lampizator, or the many other speaker and electronic manufacturers out there that can't afford an advertising/marketing camping. You jus tight be happy you did.
Oh. Alex's post reminded me.
All of that was with the DSD128 setting. To be honest I forgot all about that setting.

I'll listen when I can to DSD64 to see the differences.

There is definitely a recognizable flavor to the PCM to DSD DAC's (DSD-S, Direct Stream, MA1) that I heard. A subtle but identifiable similarity.
Hi Matt, fabulous report as usual! Would you mind giving a quick test of DSD-S in current break-in state using the identical USB wires and PC as you used for the other DACs.... So to isolate the properties of the box from those imparted by the cords.

No, I have no conjecture on whether you will find its sound to be more/less/samely appealing.

G.
Guido,

I did. Forgot to mention it. When I started to detect some deficits in performance I swapped back to MY USB cable and alpha digital PC. I wanted to make sure it was not the PC or USB cable affecting my impressions.

I ended up listening to my whole set twice, once with his USB/PC and again with mine. I honestly didn't notice huge differences. My AC is pretty clean to start with. And I'm not sure, honestly, how much a better USB cord makes. But my model of system consistency must be maintained to give accurate results.

I even switched back and forth between Amarra and Audirvana without a huge perceivable difference. Audirvana is way more flexible in what files it plays.