SACD- my intial thoughts....


Having now given my Sony DVP 900 close to 350 hours break in I thought I would report back with my findings.
First off cleary this Sony machine is not at the top end of Sony SACD players but from what I can gather it's fair to consider it a mid-range player.
As an aside it's a great machine in terms of build,picture quality and seems to have a very good transport.
As a CD player it's decent.
From my limited listening experience on SACD I have came to the conclusion that it is a format that has potential but does not exhibit sonic differences that blow you away.
The presentation on SACD is smoother, less edgy but to my ears doesn't offer much more detail.
In some ways it is preferable to CD however I do find on some tracks CD sounds better wether that's because I'm used to CD sound or due to something else isn't clear to me.
The latest Stones CD/SACD hybrids show the effect up clearly,to my ears there really isn't much to choose between the layers in any sonic aspect.
The CD layer has a bit more spikiness or edge.
I have had two friends remark that the CD layer is actually slighty more suited to the Stones sound.
I concede perhaps the Stones aren't the best band to show off sound reproduction but there is the odd really well recorded track where SACD doesn't really come through superior on any aspect of it.
Whilst I have only heard about 25 different artist's on SACD and some dozen or so discs, to me the key to any new format is early on recognising this is clearly an improvement from what I've heard before.
Perhaps my expectations are too high but to me SACD has major problems in surviving and growing.......
ben_campbell
that a well made sacd player will sound excellent on sacd and excellent on redbook by virtue of its excellent construction and attention to detail -- So, a Sony SACD 1 should sound better then a SCD333ES on redbook and SACD. Better quality, better sound, right?

I understand that there are exceptions to every rule, and comparing different technologies gets us into the apples and oranges thing. My specific point is, that we should not expect a revolution out of a $500 player just because its SACD. It takes a lot (parts, engineering, good recordings, etc.) to make good music. That's my two cents....
It stands to reason that a well made sacd player will sound excellent on sacd and excellent on redbook by virtue of its excellent construction and attention to detail -- So, a Sony SACD 1 should sound better then a SCD333ES on redbook and SACD. Better quality, better sound, right?

I understand that there are exceptions to every rule, and comparing different technologies gets us into the apples and oranges thing. My specific point is, that we should not expect a revolution out of a $500 player just because its SACD. It takes a lot (parts, engineering, good recordings, etc.) to make good music. That's my two cents....
I guess the point I was trying to make was this.
The reason DVD has been such a massive success was that everybody could see the improvement in picture quality and sound over video tape-word of mouth and actual experience has made this format massively successful.
Whilst it wouldn't be fair to expect that kind of difference on an audio format-I think it's crucial a new format exhibits reasonable advantages over what has went before.
The price of the player hasn't really got much to do with it if that player cannot exhibit a reasonable improvement on a hybrid disc.
Many audiophiles have given up on the format due to this,even at the top range and well the lack of software arguement has been made many many times.
Joe Public just isn't going to be impressed when he hears the SACD layer on the new Stones discs on that Sony DVD player he just bought because the CD layer sounds just as good.
Why is he going to support the format?
I don't think it should be underestimated how damaging this could be.
SACD as a format is just trickling through to the public,the longer the present problems continue the more likely it'll never get the word of mouth support any new format needs to break through.
I respect those who are enjoying the improvements that SACD brings them.
However I think there are just as many who hear only marginal improvements.
I want the format to succeed and I believe it has potential but I fail to be convinced that it will even though inevitably I will be supporting it.
Some people don't care sound quality, and some are not well educated to tell the difference.

I am an engineer, so let me put it in this way.
Higher sample and more bits of info need more data storage. What you gain from there? Higher sample rate will have higher bandwidth and therefore make it easier for smooth high frequency sounding. A similar DAC/amp CKT will sound more refined and smooth on SACD format. More bit will give you more dynamic sound. For example, most of music are in the middle loud range, so a CD will give 12 bit (just for example) to record the music to cover enough detail for most of music in moderate loud range. However it leaves only 6 bit for very loud or quiet level. Therefore a CD might lose the resolution or layers when the music comes to very loud or whisper quiet.

In real life, a SONY 775 playing SACD rivals redbook player >$500 (even >1K redbook machine). Why? a higher sampling rate makes DAC/amp CKT easier to achieve high resolution and smooth sound. So 775 may not have a fancy OP or DAC, but still not bad for SACD. A redbook player has to have expensive DAC/amp to sing not be edgy. A expensive redbook can get rid of edgy sound by good DAC/amp design (which SACD can do too), but they will not have the same layers (namely dynamics) as LP/SACD.

For dynamics, did you ever wonder why a pop CD always give you the same punch in the music? Some are from electronic instrument, and some are from the compressed data in CD format. They ain't sound bad acoustically, but just lacks of layers like drummer is repeating his work without emotion. Try to hear a LP or SACD playing symphony, the drum or bass/cello winding low freq. They have loud, Loud+, very loud, damn loud...., suddenly all layers are there, and the music is more exciting. Then you realize that the performers are more creative than you thought hearing in CD. It sound more like a human playing not a robot. The extra bits help SACD to sing more like a analog source.

Of course, some people don't care, they are happy with what they have. Some enjoy VCR as much as DVD, nothing wrong with it. You save $$ if so. But "people don't care" is not "there is no differece".

Some do care and maybe they are willing to buy the products which makes music more expressive.
Bluefin-it's interesting what your saying my friend was saying his biggest disappointmet with SACD was the LACK of dynamics.
As you explained he thought the potential was there for a big improvement over CD-he expected to be blown away.
He simply can't hear any improvement and he has a reasonably serious system.
All the theory in the world is great but if you can't hear it,you can't hear it.
The only difference we both can hear on SACD at this stage is a smoother sound which shouldn't be dismissed but dynamics,detail and even realism?
Not yet.