SACD 2 channel vs Redbook 2 Channel

Ben, I apoligise as I had forgotten that eventually, you made it clear that your comparisons were done on the cheap Sony and not whith the Ayre.
Others anti SACD posters claim that Sony and Phillips are using inferior Redbook on there SACD players to make the SACD version sound better, yet you say that the redbook version was equal to SACD on a cheap player.
Well....you can't both be right imo.

As far as having to spend 4k or more for decent redbook on a Universal or multi player,I meant to be in the same quality range as your Ayre whith redbook and not an overall rule.
Some are happy whith 2k or less multi player redbook sonics and some are not.
There are cheaper players such as the Phillips 963sa whith full mods that are wonderful SACD and redbook players that compete whith or beat some hi end universal players or multi players for 11-1200.00 total investment for people not wanting to spend 4k or more.

I no that there are dozens of the modified Phillps 963sa's out ther but you never see one for sale.
For those wanting quality SACD and redbook on the cheap. I highly reccomend it.
For those that want great redbook and SACD whithout mods, your going to need to spend some bucks imo.
Another option is a stock player that does SACD well along whith a dac for redbook.

All of the above is just IMHO as I am sure that others will disagree whith some or all of it.

Results from the Stereophool poll listed above.

Have you bought one or both of the high-rez audio formats?

I've got a universal player 15%
I've got a DVD-A player 4%
I've got a SACD player 32%
Don't have either but will soon 12%
Don't have either and don't care 34%

It is very interesting that 51% have some form of hi-rez in there systym.
It is also very interesting that the SACD format has around an 8.5 to 1 advantage over DVD-A among audiophools in this poll.

Most audiophools do not buy cheap multi players but rather mid fi to hi end so the "Got SACD free whith my 200.00 dvd player" argument to boost the SACD sales #'s does not apply here.

I also believe that among the 34% that don't care are a lot of die hard vinyl fans that could care less about any digital format.
This makes the #'s in the poll seem even more crystal clear that among audiophools, SACD has become the hi-rez format of choice.

The poll results closely match everything I have read on several forums since hi-rez arrived.

FYI...I did not vote in the poll.

The latest issue of the Music Direct catalog has 15 pages (non-advertising) of SACD’s and four pages of DVD-A’s. They have 14 pages of “redbook” and 18 pages of vinyl. Of course this is not a reflection of what is available in all formats, but it is a reflection of the marketing to the Audiophile. The point is the SACD catalog of music is growing very quickly and is being marketed to those who have interest in hi-resolution audio playback. As for hardware they have Philips, Music Hall, Berendsen, Marantz, McCormack, Esoteric and Shanling. This is one catalog from one music supplier to the Audiophile. Hardware is a secondary market to this company, yet the variety of players available shows me the market is growing, and more companies are devoting R&D budgets to SACD. If the next two years follow the curve of the past two we will find a whole lot to choose from!
As to the argument continuing on this thread, I feel some important issues have been left out. Ritteri has lead the anti-SACD argument. It’s time we look at who is making these comments. Clearly he has some experience in an audio store. Judging from the equipment he has talked about this is a mid/high end store, but clearly not the audiophile level. His comment “Adcom GFP-750 and the Pass Labs X2. Neither of these preamps color the sound in any way.” Made on 11-21-03 clearly shows his inability to impartially state the facts. All pre-amps color the sound in some way. In the case of Adcom in bi-pass mode and Pass it hardens the sound in my opinion. Edgy and electronic, in comparison to natural and neutral. I continue my analysis of who Ritteri is with his system. Wadia CD player, Aragon amp and Voodoo cables. Can you say harsh and edgy? I’m surprised he’s not touting Krell, Theta, Ayre and electrostatic speakers, but I’m guessing his “store” is not of the ilk to attract these manufacturers. My point is this equipment is good equipment but clearly not neutral or natural in sound reproduction. My feeling is this is playing into his opinions on the SACD format and his comments on analog.
I ask Ritteri to back off his “I know because I work in an audio store” platform and realize his view is extremely limited and his taste hardly represenitive of an audiophile.

As someone who once visited a Tweeter store, I can say that listing employoment there on one's resume' does not guarantee expertise in audio.

Jadem6:I have worked for more than one retailer and Tweeter sure isnt my calling card as I have worked for a number of true high end audio dealers in the area(the only reason I may have brought up working for Tweeter in past threads is due to the official US release of SACD being intro'd at the Burlington Ma. Tweeter store, plus Adcom has always been a regular staple for Tweeter which I have alot of hands on knowledge). But this isnt what I make as my argument. But if you must know more about my background, I have gone to Boston University's School of Music for multiple courses in Music Theory along with courses from the UNH system. And it doesnt hurt to have played the Violin and Clarinet since I was a child either. Nor do the years working at The Boston String Co. as a Violin appraiser. But working for many of these audio stores give me an inside perspective on alot of components and allows me the ability to play with and use extensive amount of gear in my own personal time for enjoyment and evaluation.I can honestly claim to have had MILLIONS of dollars worth of great gear in and out of my home over the couse of the last few years. How many people can honestly claim that? Not too many. I sure can claim to have had alot more hands on experience that the average "Audiophile" with their copy of "Stereophile" or "Hifi Times" being the basis for their info.

Ears in this never ending debate I think it's been forgotten I wanted to try and enjoy SACD, not bury it,my player originally retailed for approx $750,£500 here in the UK.(I bought somewhere in the region of 40 SACD's).
Without repeating various points we simply don't have the choice here in the UK to pick up modded players etc.
I've never stated my experience is the definitive one,far from it but from a starting out point I think it's a valid experience my other points are represented elsewhere.
I think this debate is worthwhile and what is interesting to me is that I think Rsbeck probably made his best post on SACD yesterday,not that I agree at all with everything he wrote but I actually found that through his obvious frustation he found a better way to put things......
I would still love to be in both camps and as I've always said I may return to SACD at some stage.