SACD my thoughts at this time.....................


I have been on other threads accused of being consistantly negative on SACD as a format.
I'll put my full thoughts on the format here so those members with differing views can express their issues with my opinions.
Hopefully it can be archived and new posters can be directed to this thread.
I also don't claim to know all the answers so others can offer more information or contradictory evidence.

It's long been my contention SACD will probably survive as a niche Audiophille format.
I do not see it breaking into the mainstream nor do I see a time when the majority of releases make it onto SACD.
Of course I could be totally wrong and this is guesswork at this stage in the game.

Also as a music nut with an interest in audio replay I do not rule out further down the line owning a main replay machine that gives me SACD capability to go along with my higher end Redbook capability at this stage.

I'll break my points into main headings.

1.SOFTWARE QUALITY AND LACK OF NEW RELEASES/NEW MUSIC.
Clearly the number of SACD's available are increasing but is it enough?
Sales have risen also.
My opinion is that the large rise in sales is related directly to the large reissue sets of Dylan,The Stones,The Police and the mega-selling DSOTM by Pink Floyd.
These hybrid releases will tie in strongly with my argument on my second and sixth headings.
But the success of these releases lies in their ability to be played in most CD players.
Even pro-SACD members do seem at times to be worried by the quality of some SACD remasters or releases.
A major boo boo in trying to break the format.
Most importantly for me also is the close to complete lack of releases that are new and indeed non-Audiophile related.
Surely another boo boo.
The movement on software in general terms has been too slow.
Whilst no doubt some will cite CD quality and early problems however SACD does not offer the new intial convienance over vinyl CD did.

2.CHEAP MACHINE SYNDROME.
I bought my DVPSN900 on the reviews stating that it was a good audio machine as well which highlighted SACD superiority over Redbook.
It is but the difference between the Redbook and SACD replay is not noticeable to my ears nor others who have heard it.
Surely this is catastrophic for the format?
A dip in the water buying machines such as these will leave potential SACD progressive adopters unimpressed.
Sony has clearly introduced many cheaper SACD players over the last few years.

3.AVAILABILITY OF PLAYERS.
This one will sound daft to most Americans but when I was considering a higher end SACD machine to hear,there was nothing in my price range available in Glasgow,a major city in the UK and probably the biggest hi-fi city outside of London.
None of the big Audio stockists in the city have had much success in selling players.
I wouldn't doubt in a lot of European cities this is similar.
I've also not heard a single UK dealer rave about the format,maybe for the same reasons,my local dealer constantly turns down SCD-1's for trade in because he's had difficulty moving them.
American Audiophiles maybe don't realise that their market is a lot more vibrant despite the economic gloom.
Seems here in the UK after the intial burst of SACD there is a large gap in the availability market which hasn't been filled.

4.NEW PLAYERS
Outside the elite world of the likes of Emm Labs etc it seems the new players have been indifferent.
Doesn't the mediocre reviews/feedback of such big boys as Linn and Krell not bring another problem.
This month's Hi-fi+ reviews the new Classe Omega (£12K!)and describes it's Redbook playback as mediocre.
Shouldn't we by this stage seeing the technology drift down and be wowed by the new players?
Will the new Sony make a difference?
5.OTHER FORMATS
Clearly another big issue is the likes of DVDA.
With new generations adopting different types of software,is there any place for SACD?
Even the humble CD seems to have a reasonable future at this stage purely as the dominant format to buy new music on.
Of course it too is under threat but does anybody really think SACD will bypass CD?
6.HYBRID DOUBLE-EDGED SWORD.
Imagine you are reasonably interested in sonic reproduction but have a moderate to low-end system and you've just bought a newly remastered SACD hybrid of some classic.
If you notice a big jump in the CD quality will that intrigue you on SACD quality or will you think I'm not going to spend x$ on a new SACD player when I'm getting benefits where I am.
If you read a bit about it you might consider those who have heard the differences on older recordings to be very slight.
SACD worth the investment?

7.REDBOOK QUALITY ON SACD PLAYER.
Is this an issue?
I think this is key where Audiophiles are concerned.
Will a $3k SACD machine match a Redbook only player in Redbook replay.
It was this issue which ultimately led me away from trying to kill two birds with one stone.
A problem for me here in here the UK but what about in America where the overall selection is better?

8.COMBINATION EFFECT
It's my contention that SACD has too many different issues and unknowns at this stage to make anyone think that it's future is certain.
I'm sure I will hear a lot about Sony's investment and their copyright worries but will that matter if the format does not sell or grow sales?

Let's here your views-those who await further developments before investing in SACD,those who have early adopted and got out of the format and those who love it,embrace and believe it has a long future.
ben_campbell
I debating whether to upgrade my Muse Model 9 to Model 11 with SACD and DVD-A for $1,900. Given what I saw at Best Buy last week for software there didn't seem to be much that interested me. However we are still at the beginning of these new formats and there should be more releases coming.

Also in the past year I was given about 400 records in good condition, mostly classical and I bought another 70 from an estate. Don't have the time to listen to them.

On the other hand, if the sound from SACD and DVD-A is that much better than Redbook then I should pursue it. Only have about 125 CDs so doesn't make sense to me to buy an expensive CD player to listen to them when new releases should be coming out in the new formats.
Slingshot, given your vinyl committment and few cds, I would invest little in a top sacd player. I think sacd is far superior to most cds, but vinyl is as yet unsurpassed. Yes, digital is much more convenient, but obviously you are will to make the extra effort.
TBG: Your are probably right. Just installed BPT 3.5 last night and will be writing a review after I listen too it some more. Also looking for better cables. Should probably buy a better cartridge instead of SACD.
The key to both of these new formats -- for the record companies at least -- is that you can't put them in your computer, make copies, convert them to MP3s and send them to your friends or strangers. You can't burn them to DVDR etc.

The record companies will give SACD/DVD-A players away if it will cause the formats to gain traction and bury redbook CDs.

And they'll be sure that no one comes up with software or hardware to convert these into sharable files.

Paul Green
Slingshot, I will be getting my upgraded Model 9 Signature (to Model 10) within a week or so, and will post results.

Although the Model 11 does it all (CD,SACD,DVD and DVD-A), I went with the 10 because (according to Kevin) it is a superior sonic solution for PCM playback, which includes CD and DVD-A formats. It is supposed to better the Model 9 Sig on redbook CD, and better the Model 11 on everything except SACD, which the 10 will not do. I guess after researching things I am in the camp which believes the PCM formats and DVD of some form will ultimately be mainstream, even if on a dual disc. This thing may ultimately be software driven where there both SACD and DVD-A will survive, or some other future format. If DVD-A bombs I will still have a great redbook player, that will do movies also. However, knowing Muse, I am sure the Model 11 sounds pretty darn good in all the formats. I doubt you could go wrong with an upgrade to the 11.

Regarding the lower priced players out there, I think it is great that a wide level of consumers can afford the new formats. This should ultimately improve the software availability. However, I seriously doubt the sub $500 players talked about on these forums can match the better players (such as MUSE, Meridian, Theta, and others) using improved power supplies, better chips and boards, better chassis and isolation, and high quality connectors.