A Call To Reason . . . . .


. . . . (Or A Semi-Longish Rant By A Megalomaniacal Oddity)

i posted this in another thread, but wanted to start my own thread concerning the subject of a disturbing trend i see happening here on the 'Gon. the specific thread which i reference hereafter is mainly the "dv50 - any other players significantly better?" thread. those who have read it and even those who have not, please indulge me by reading the following and offering your opinions . . .

i held my tongue in that supposed "shootout" thread, but i'm gonna chime in here.

i've no doubt that the APL player is a nice player. i'm sure it is.

but i've owned many a cd player in my day and anybody's *absolute* assertion that the esoteric dv-50 is 'one-dimensional,' and 'sounds like radio shack,' and 'is bettered in every way' by the modded denons is a load of horse crap. even a previous poster in this thread has his facts wrong regarding the esoteric transport: there IS NO CLAIM to a VDRS clamp-mechanism in the dv-50. it is a pioneer transport! so? the APL uses a denon transport! what's your point? and no, the VDRS is *NOT* in any way a glossed-over OEM - it is designed and built in-house, and is one of the finest transports built.

again, no disrespect to alex of APL because i'm sure he truly does great work - but beware of the ludicrous superlatives and silly claims that one player "trounces" another or that because the esoteric dv-50 uses a pioneer transport that it's "a home theater unit with no business i a high-end system." this simply is not the case.

it's amazing the stigmas we have as audiophiles. the sacred cows we keep - cd's can't sound good; if it doesn't just play cd's it can't be any good; pcm leaves an audible fingerprint in every case; oem transports are cheap; if it plays dvd's also then it's "home theater" equipment. (God Forbid!)

that is just plain crap. i've owned the dv-50 along with several other highly ranked cd players and TO MY EARS it is a fantastic unit for the cost. period. on redbook, sacd, dvd-audio it is fantastic. i wouldn't trade my emmlabs meitner gear for the world, but i did trade my resolution audio opus 21 for it. did it handle cd as well as the resolution audio? i don't think so - not to my ears, anyway. did the resolution audio "trounce it?" or "destroy it," or "make it sound one-dimensional?" no, it didn't. i decided it was a fair sacrifice for universal playback. this this mean i'm right? no, it means i'm right for me. when i bought my meitner gear, did i buy it because somebody i trusted told me it sounded good? honestly, yes i did. but if i hadn't liked the sound, i'd have sold it right back. that's part of the fun - sometimes you can buy used stuff blindly and then sell it for the same price. it's fun and that way you don't have to rely on other's opinions - and certainly not let their opinions influence your own.

but sadly, that's not enough for some. no, some people in this hobby have agendas. i firmly believe that some of the loons who say that "this product destroys, demolishes, kills that one" are doing no more than trying to validate themselves, their "golden ears" and/or their purchases. yes, there are products out there that sound more real than others, but in the world of high-end cd players - it really comes down to personal preference. a krell will sound different than a linn. a naim different from a teac esoteric. meitner different from wadia. there's no need to try to convert anyone into believing that you are right, that your player is the best - enjoy the music, people! the day this hobby ceases to be fun is the day we should jump ship! let's just use some common sense - a disc player costing $5500 is not going to sound like radio shack! and if it did, it wouldn't sell! i don't care if it also plays dvds, it just wouldn't. you might not like the presentation of it, but *please.* there are so few absolutes in this hobby and when somebody is so insanely vocal in their vehemence in using them, that's when we need to step back and question why. i hate to sound so cynical, but if you read that whole thread with an open mind, you'll see what i mean.

that "shootout" thread IMHO is a microcosm of mob mentality. look at it from the beginning and follow the progression. it's a perfect model for a sociology textbook! at first, everybody jumps on the bandwagon saying "dv-50 is great, blah blah blah" (whether from their own experiences or because of the positive reviews, i cannot say) and then in comes one person, more vocal than the rest to challenge that notion. this one is so much more vocal than the others that he suddenly becomes the alpha male - the unquestionable audio guru, the one who first says that the emporer is wearing clothes - can't you see them? if not, you must be a fool. he convinces one person on the thread via a visit to his house of it and then all of a sudden, people start to doubt their own decisions and jump on his bandwagon - feeding his ego and validating themselves because they agree with the alpha male and his obviously "golden ears." i mean, nobody wants to be thought the fool, right? maybe they didn't like what they had heard after all? maybe somebody else knows more than they do about what sounds good to them.

nonsense. only you know what sounds good to you.

people, the emporer has no clothes. listen for yourself and make your own decisions. question when people overuse superlatives. avoid the hyperbole and the rhetoric. it's about music, folks - that's why we're all here. no need to put anybody else's equipment down to make yourself feel better, or to try to validate youself by convincing others that you're right or to try to validate yourself by jumping on the popular bandwagon.

yes, i'm aware of the irony implicit by my posting this and trying to change people's minds, but this i implore of all of you - do what makes sense and is logical to you. whther or not you agree with me.

thanks for taking my call, diane, and i'll take my response off the air.

:-)

honestly - happy listening to all.
lazarus28
The more I learn about audio the more I realize wild claims could well be system synergy at it's best and the same piece could sound noticably less good somewhere else.

Also something that often happens is something sounds really good for the first few days or weeks and after that it settles in and sounds different therefore getting less acclaim. I am especially leery of someone who just plugged something in listens a few hours, and then posts about it (I have done this myself) they are often excited (this is how some purchases are made) and throw superlatives around. Not a 'bad' thing just not especially level headed and sometimes misleading for other potential purchasers if the writer is not careful.

BTW 711 this is not directed at you as I have not read your thread but in response to Lazarus...

all the best,

Phil
Different people have different listening priorities. Some people may truly prefer one over the other, even after careful A/B testing, and living with them for awhile. It may also have something to do with how it all comes together in their individual systems and rooms.

I had to notice that you made a comment about how your new digital gear beat your very nice Teres analog system, and you've now sold it. But, I know of a few other people who have the exact same Teres 265 turntable that you had, and also have the newest flagship Meitner digital gear, and definitely prefer the Teres analog to even the best Meitner digital.

So, how can this be reconciled?
Easy.
To each his own.
Some need to have different things out of their systems, than either you or I(or anybody else) may promote.
If you are happy, that is all that should matter.
711 - great response! that last bit cracked me up - and i guess i did miss the part where you said your earlier statements may have been a little overzealous. no worries, pal - and i'd love to hear the APL next time im in chicago. likewise, if you're in san antonio - come on by! we'll kick out the jams and drink some fine shiner bock beer, which is easily the best in the country and absolutely trounces all over the competition. (tongue firmly pressed against cheek)

david_berry - fortunately (depending on how you look at it) i live alone so that's not an issue. sounds like you need to start sneaking home during your lunch hour. . .

tvad - my general point remains to take all wild claims with a grain of salt, regardless of what that claim is - mine included.

philojet - yeah, i know what you mean. i've made changes to my system that floored my for a little while. like once, i borrowed my brother's little tube preamp for my office system and i was WOWED for a few hours. i was just about ready to run out and buy one. then after listening for a long time, i for whatever reason found it unsatisfying. i switched back to mine and was happy again.

twl - my point exactly. i'm in no way trying to invalidate the ability of the teres with that statement. it's just what i hear. gotta tell you, though - i almost wish i'd have kept the teres just to look at it. . .

goegeous.

cheers, folks!
Enthusiastic hobbyists we are, and are no different from those with other hobbies, enjoying the occasional one-up and the more than occasional fish story... I've read that whole thread and found it to be very informative and entertaining. I wish I had the resources to play in their game (also a Chicago resident), but I'll happily watch from the mid-fi seats...

Cheers.