subwoofer comparision

I don't dispute your choice of VMPS subs and the Marchand or even doubt your experience with the REL. What I do find rather perplexing is that both of the anomalies you describe (one note thump and collapsed soundstage), are the hallmarks of what a REL does NOT do in my experience. I have tried a number of subs in my years in this hobby and, IMHO, the RELs' incredible flexibilty of inputs/coarse/fine adjustments, high/low settings etc. make them emminently adjustable to fit your needs.

How high did you (or your brother in law) have it crossed over? Placement is crucial too as is patience in adjusting the controls. I have a pair of Velodyne ULD 15 MK-IIs that I formerly had in an HT set-up (and then tried with a set of Silverline SR-15s for audio only) -- not horrible -- but nowhere NEAR as musical and seamlessly integrated as my REL Stentor III with my main system. I have it crossed over at 23 hz though. BUT if I cross it over at even 40hz, I start approaching the normal "one note thump" you get with some subs.

Again, I do not question your knowledge as much as I wonder if something wasn't either wrong with the sub (e.g., defective) or if the room set-up was not optimized.

Sedond, too bad neither of you had the patience to allow the REL to break in before you sold it. It is the last sub in the entire world that would ever be accused of "one-note thump" if broken in and set up properly (and both of these things generally take several months, if you want to reach the full potential of these subs). In fact, that is why all us happy REL owners got ours in the first place, because we like MUSIC and can't stand the thump-thump that just about everything else gives you. Find one that has been set up right and broken in, and then take a listen.

I own a REL strata and I'm very pleased with it. It is crossed at 30Hz with Spica Angelus in a 10x12 room. The soundstage has not collapsed and it is not a one-note thump. In fact it complements the spicas wonderfully. I only use it for 2ch music. I would not discount Doug's post, since REL didn't work for him, but I would balance it against the many happy REL customers.

I think a strata might not be powerful enough for HT, though, especially if you like to crack the plaster.

So RELs are very good and easy to resell (though somewhat overpriced in the US relative to the UK). The only other sub in the same price range which people seem to like is the ACI titan. You might want to home demo one of each, though personally I'd go for a used REL : it's a no risk policy. If you don't like it you sell it for the same as you paid yourself.

I'm not going to go to the seperate amp route. After further thought. I'm leaning torwads a audition with the Soliloquy S-10, ACI Titan II-LE and the REL Storm. The Sol and the Titan will be easy for me to audition, don't know about the REL though.

Another question, for music, would 2 lesser subs be better than 1 better sub? Maybe something like 2 ACI Titans vs 1 ACI Titan II-LE? Would these be easier to integrate than just one?

to some of the comments above - the strata my brother-in-law purchased was fully broken in, as he purchased it used. (definitely the way to go w/rels - he *was* able to resell it w/o taking a big loss.) i'm sure he tried it crossed over quite a bit higher than 23 hz, as he wanted to run his proacs thru the x-over. and, his room, while small, at ~14x16, is a bit larger than 10x12. i know i tried it at ~60hz, running my thiels thru the x-over, in my kitchen system...

i've had success using my marchand/vmps system as high as 100 hz (they're presently set at 60hz), and this allows the main speakers relief of the need to play that last octave or so, making them all the more transparent & detailed.

i'm sure that stentor is a lovely sub, but at $4k usa prices, it is just not competitive, imo. i know these are better deals in the uk. i am a notorious cheapskate, but when it came to subs, i bought brand-new: both vmps larger subs, *and* the marchand x-over. one adcom gfa555 was bought new years ago & pressed into service, the other i bought used to have a matched pair. the total expenditure, including both amps, was still <$2.4k... if you went w/the vmps original subs and a single stereo amp (all that's needed, really, except for *really* big rooms), you could bring it in for ~$1500. that's for *two* subs. you could even save more money, as both the vmps & the marchand are available as kits...

gunbunny, while powered subs may seem less complicated to set-up, in the long run, separate sub/amp/x-over ultimately gives you more flexibility, imo, but hey, it's your call! :>) as far as two vs one, i *strongly* encourage you to get two, especially since audio is a priority. better soundstaging, easier integration w/room *and* monitors, less thd at any given spl, w/two subs. as far as getting a pair of *lesser* subs, you may want to consider getting a better single sub now, and adding a second, as funds permit.

regards to all, doug s.