Time coherence - how important and what speakers?

Now we're getting somewhere. Designers sharing the merits and compromises they have to deal with in a decorous forum. As I have previously stated, I am consistently attracted to time coherent designs. How ever, the thought of lobing effects have caused me concern. Perhaps the experts would shed some light on the subject.

Every speaker design is a compromise. The perfect solution is not available and probably never will be. I'm sure that every speaker manufacturer feels "His" design is the best solution.
I prefer the 6db designs and I use Vandersteen 3A Signatures with a pair of matching 2wq subs. This has provided me with the best sound "I" have ever had in my dedicated listening room.
On the test bench, these speakers are about as good as any out there (testing wise using Stereophiles reviews and in Richard Hardesty's reports and comparisons in The Audioperfectionist) Obviously, there is more to speakers than what shows up on a test bench, eg:room acoustics.
I feel Jeff is trying to "Sell" his design. I'm sure his speakers are liked by some(most manufactures are) but I personally did not favor the sound. Is his solution the answer? I don't think so.
I do agree that 6db speaker designs are a little harder to set up and do have a limited "Sweet spot." But to be honest, in 40 years of being in this hobby, I have not heard a speaker that didn't take time to set up and was somewhat limited to a "Sweet spot." Vandersteen's have an area where the sound doesn't change and unless you are moving around listening to music, then, this is really a non issue. I haven't heard a speaker thats sound didn't change when moving around. I usually stay put.
I have owned probably in the neighborhood of 30 pair of different speakers over the expanded course of my trial and tribulations with this stuff. My final solution has been---If it sounds good then stick with it! I'm through spending my money chasing my tail for the "Perfect sound." And by the way, NOBODY KNOWS WHAT PERFECT SOUND IS!

Bigtee,

I agree that there are trade offs in every design, but for me the trade off's in low order crossover designs are too great to allow me to enjoy listening through them. I should mention one exception, however- the Quad ESL 63 with Crosby mod's was
within its limitations a very satisfying speaker. Just don't turn them up too loud, and place them very carefully.

One needs to be able to interpret the test data correctly, in order to identify what is significant and what is not. If you are willing to ignore peaks and dips of 10-14 dB off axis, I suppose that's your perogative.

I'm not laying claim to "PERFECT SOUND". Just "TRUER SOUND".
The problem with "if it sounds good, stick with it" is that
I couldn't find a speaker that I was completely satified with. Each system pointed out flaws in the others. That's why I went into the loudspeaker business to produce Richard Modafferi's Infinite Slope designs. These systems managed to
get more things right to my ears than any other system. And the measurements happen to bear that out.

Jeff

I don't have the means or ability to test my listening impressions. With that said, I have found the sweet spot of low impedance speakers to be wider in the horizontal plane and narrower in the veritcal plane. Despite the fact that my mother used to teach ballet, I'm not prone to dancing. I usually listen alone. As such it's an easy compromise to live with. Interestingly, the Dunlavy's seem to have overcome a bit of this vertical sweet spot compromise.

Jeff, The last statement you made about "truer" sound is where the problem lies. What is truer? Is it based on measurements or are you ears "truer" than mine (which could be the case considering the age factor!) My point was that to each individual,truer takes on a different opinion. No speaker is perfect, as I said, and therefore is not truer unless you use a subjective analysis(as in your case---your ears.)
I actually talked to Richard Vandersteen at some length about his design and, like you, he could not listen to anything but a "slow slope.")Is he wrong in his opinion? To his ears, it was "Truer." He also believes in the "Baffleless" design. I definitely feel that speakers with a large area surrounding the tweeter and midrange affects the sound negatively.
I have listened to your speakers extensively. I do know set up affects them and they do have a sweet spot. I also find them somewhat analytical with a slightly dry sound. I hate to say this but they sound somewhat similiar to the B&W Nautilus line(which I owned for a while--805's and 802's)which i feel ARE excellent speakers but not for me.
I'm certainly not going to tell you your design is wrong and that your speakers don't sound correct to you. I'm sure your speakers are well built and deserving of the interest they get. However, I am going to tell you they do not sound truer to me for whatever reason. I find the Vandersteen to be as dynamic and accurate as sounding as any speaker system I have owned. They may truly be +- 10db off axis but they sound damn good on axis where I listen.