Does full range guarantee bass?

Phasecorrect, you seem pretty dogmatic about that subwoofer guarantee. Some of these so-called subwoofers aren't even rated to reproduce frequencies below 24 or even 30Hz. Go figure.

Perhaps these should fall into a new class called 'sub-midrange'. At least that classification would be more accurate.

I wouldn't be the least surprised if somebody qualified stated that there are probably more inferior subwoofers on the market percentage-wise than there are inferior speakers.

Matchstikman, there is a full range speaker that has really peaked my interest of late. The VON SCHWEIKERT VR-4 GEN III / VR-4 GEN III Special Edition and it's frequency is 16Hz to 40kHz. Now that's a true full range speaker!!!

Most subs won't even go that low. Anyway, the VR-4 GIII SE retails for $6k and according to a few, including a StereoTimes reviewer, may just be the best speaker under $20k.

If I were looking for a new speaker, that would probably be the first on my list. Even though it may not be the prettiest.

And of course with that frequency range, you should never need a subwoofer.

-IMO

Now that's what I'am talking about.You hit the nail right on the head Stehno!I know I have went thru more light in the ass subs with boomy bass(catching hell just to get below 40 hz),than full range floorstanders. I have done a freq sweep test and achieved a low rumble down to 12 hz(in my listening room) with my Sol 6.3s which are rated at 25hz to 20 khz! So subs need not apply!

I really would rather not use a sub at all! I searched for an affordable fullrange speaker that did not look like a battle tank.The closest I could get was a set of NEARs for my taste and room dimensions.After that I would have wanted to try VMPS or GR Reseach.

One thing that really is hard to do is get seamless intergration and good room interaction with subs.About the only need I would want one now is for HT I think as there is not much I listen to that requires the extension you get below 30Hz..Although I know the pshycological feeling will always be there having the extension of what I understand.

My next sub will be DIY with the XO point tailored to be exact instead of the dialed 40hz. cutoffs that usually are given with most sub amps.

Pretty tired and hope that made sense.

Gmood1, as I'm sure you know, finding the 'right' full-range speaker is only half the battle. Contrary to popular folklore, there is still another battle to be won. And that is finding the 'right' amp to drive the 'right' speaker.

It amazes me how some to many think excellent sound will come from the 'right' speaker without giving hardly any consideration to an amplifier's unique characteristics, benefits, and shortcomings.

If one had speakers capable of reproducing frequencies down to 16 or so Hz, I would think one had better give serious consideration to aquiring the right amp, or they may end up blowing a few drivers, crossovers, etc..

There are a few benefits of having a seperate subwoofer. If the sub is active, then hopefully the sub amp is an excellent match for the sub driver. Thus eliminating some of that guess work. And then of course the main amp is free to concentrate on everything but the lowest of frequencies. Thus giving more variety toward the purchase of an amp (depending on configuration).

-IMO

I agree with Stehno. I would rather have some bookshelf
speakers than other full-range floor standers. I'd rather
have no bass than bass done poorly. The task is to find a pair of speakers that are not only "full-range" but are
also coherent from top to bottom, produce deep, tight, and
above all -- musical -- bass in a way that doesn't muddy
the mid-range, and handles detail and dynamics in a way that sounds accurate [or -- gasp -- pleasing] to your ears. Also, if you plan on extended listening sessions, make sure you can listen to them for extended periods without fatigue. THEN, find the right amplification, pre-amp, and front end. Spend hours at your local Hifi stores
listening to as many speakers as possible. Don't limit
yourself to speakers in your price range -- try to listen
to speakers at higher price points to see how they handle
coherency, bass, dynamics, etc. Then, try to get as much
of what you like at the price point you can afford.