Tube Pre for Klipschorn

Calvin- Sorry, but I have no direct experience with the Horn Mono's to speak of. They do have 18db less gain than most of the other Quicksilver amps and for that reason may adress some of the noise issues you are having with your pre. I assume you've checked all the tubes you are running in your pre to make sure they're all healthy(?). If not, tubes that are failing tend to get noisier as they age. You could also have a bad capacitor in your pre (at least it sounds like you've isolated it to your preamp....is the noise gone when the preamp is shut down and your amp is running?..Is the noise in both channels or one?). The tube choice will also make some difference as I'm sure you know....some tubes within the same family are more microphonic than others. This is especially so with some of the smaller more delicate tubes like the 6922 family. My friend who owns the new Quicksilver "The Triode" amps does also use his full-function pre and has never complained about noise, but I'll ask him for you. He does like the way Mike's products work together (and this is someone who could afford a MUCH more expensive preamp, and owns several high-end amps and speakers). Mike Sanders (owner of Quicksilver) is very knowledgeable and approachable. If you give him a call and see if he has time to talk about your problem you may find he had a much better take on it than me. You can also try email but he tends to be pretty brief in his answers by email. I do know that he is pretty swamped with orders right now since I had the opportunity to correspond with him recently. Obviously he knows his products intimately.

I really love the SET/horn combination, but would qualify that you should definitely hear what it is like before selling your amp and investing in SET. The difference between SS and SET is most profound, and if you are like Bob and prefer the qualities that SS brings out of your music then you may not like the direction. I also don't know that going to SET would directly address the noise issues you are having. In fact, as I understand it, which is not to say very well, with the 300B designs there is the added issue of going to a directly heated tube that also can impart some tube noise to a very sensitive speaker. All of that said, I've never heard anything I like better, so it clearly works for me. Several Audiophile friends have also been very impressed with the sound. Two all-SS guys decided they had to try tubes when they heard my system. Mike Sanders (and some folks) on the other hand, do not like the harmonic distortions that SET imparts. After building several prototypes he decided he did not want to build them as production amps for those reasons (you can ask him about it if you talk to him or email him). For me the SET sound is heavenly! I'm using the WE 300B tubes in his amps, while I believe Mike only used Chinese 300B's to test them. I don't know if he knows how great these things can sound! To each their own! If you are ever in Seattle drop me an email and you'd be most welcome to listen for yourself Calvin. My only big compromise with that system right now is the room they are in, which is more a matter of keeping my system wife-friendly.

Marco

For those that are technically minded and interested in highly advanced tube designs that are both linear and built with common sense , try taking a look at Norm Koren's website. Just bring your "audiophile approved bullet-proof vests" with you as he's going to take a few pot-shots at those that are "tweak-o-philes".

Once you get past the initial "slagging" on the home page, i think that you'll find that Norm tries to design products that offer the best of both worlds i.e. the sonic characteristics of tubes with the linearity, low distortion and bandwidth of SS. The "extra cool part" about this is that he does so without any "trick" or custom made parts, so one can duplicate the circuits that he does use at very reasonable cost. One can even upgrade the components used to "tweaky audiophile" status if you feel the need.

Personally, i like Norm's "no nonsense / common sense" approach but have to disagree with some of his comments, especially those regarding passive parts quality and tweaking. Then again, if you could find someone that agreed with you on EVERY subject that you discussed, you should probably marry that person : ) Sean
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Marco,

I didn't get a name at Quicksilver when I called, but the person told me that the Quicksilver Fullfunction pre was not a good match with the K-horns because of the noise factor. I ask if this was just his preamp or would it be different with others like CJ and AR. He stated the noise would be there, but it could be more or less with other brands. He also stated that noise would be an issue with normal PP tube amps as well, but a combination of their horn with the Fullfunction pre (or others) would probably work due to the fact the the horn amp has less gain. The gain on my pre is 39db @ 1Kz, so I'm thinking a different pre might help a bit. When I was using the pre with Electrostacs, it was great, because they are very inefficient, so the gain really helped. Also, I have tried different tubes with the same results. I using a RCA 12FQ7, Telefunk 12AX7, and Mullard 12AU7.

Sean,

Thanks for the info, I'll check out the web site; I'm always interested in hearing others opinions.

Calvin

Wow, that's a surprising input on the compatibility issue. I'll have to check in with my friend as he's never mentioned that issue to me and I know he has Khorns (as well as Belles and LaScalas). Glad you were able to get some input from the good folks there. The gain on your pre is significantly higher than mine (mine is 18db unbalanced, and 24db balanced on my work system going into the Mini-Mites pushing Heresy's which are only 94db efficient). I'm not sure what the gain is at home with my Cary SLP-50A. The only noise issue I have is with my Sonic Frontiers SFP-1 phono stage which has a 37db output in the MM stage which I'm using. With that I have identical tube noise issues to what you describe with all kinds of tube combinations. This is going through the Mini-Mites which have the 18db higher gain then the Horn-Mono's (in my work system). I'll let you know if I hear back from my friend to see if he has similar issues. Thanks for posting your findings as it is useful information to me with my Sonic Frontiers issue!

Marco

Has anyone out there tried pure class A Solid State gear with their Khorns? I have heard that pure class A S/S can sound like "tubes without tears", ie maintenance, etc. Any opinions on this?