Recomendation for speakers BEST for Piano?

Hey Frogman, how do you know that the expanded soundstage added by your subwoofer isn't due to the 0.2msec delay between the sub and your mains at 80 Hz? Or the phase shift between running a mono sub with binaural mains? Why are you so sure that it's due to 20 Hz "undertones" that only a nearly inactive subwoofer can produce? Do you really think these practically inaudible tones are present on redbook CDs? As a recovering subwoofer user my opinions on this matter could be suspect but I offer them honestly. Jsujo is absolutely correct but Sam Tellig says it best in the current 12/03 Stereophile (p.36, col.2, p6): "Deep bass is almost always more trouble than it's worth." Free your ears from the tyranny of frequency response. Try going "subless"!

Khrys...I think that your "going subless" is certainly reasonable. As I have observed, most of the time the SW cones are doing nothing. And "doing nothing" means exactly that. There is no subsonic hall sound that somehow gets reproduced without any motion of the cone. However, there are some recordings that do have hall sound, with cone movement, and there is some music that does really give the sw a workout. But these cases are few and far between.

I have an elaborate SW system built into the wall (3 systems/6 drivers), but it did not cost me a lot because I designed, built, and tweeked it. I enjoyed the construction process as much as listening. The amps are on a separate power switch. Sometimes I join the subless gang by throwing the switch.

Hey Khrys, how do I know? I don't! I don't need to "know", if "knowing" means being able to "prove" it. What my ears tell me is all the proof that I need. What I can tell you, is that I have spent hundreds of hours in concert halls, and the sound and feeling of a good hall, it's scale of size, is present in the extreme low frequencies. And you don't need bass instruments to be playing to hear it, and very clearly. I am sure that there are are some with much more technical knowledge than I, that can explain what I am hearing; but hear it I do. Very full range speakers, and good subs, let me hear that sound/feeling. Is it an artifact? Who knows? I know what phase related distortions sound like, and it doesn't sound like that to me. Am I advocating the use of subs? Hell no! I definitely have a love/hate relationship with mine; and I use the term love loosely. However, in the case of my Stax F-81's, speakers that to me, have a midrange truth that no speaker, and I mean NO speaker, that I have ever heard has, the absence of anything below about 70hz, makes the experience incredibly frustrating. So, I'm willing to live with the obvious, but not gross, discontinuity between the midrange and bass, and the difference in timbre, to get some of the underpinnings present in music.

I will stick by my comment about how the woofers don't need to be flapping wildly for their contribution to be heard.

Good listening, and Happy Thanksgiving to all.

Frogman you are a good sport and I do appreciate your perspective. I literally tried for years to mate various subs with speakers whose midrange was glorious but low end insufficient. Perhaps the most entertaining combo I devised was ML CLSs with binaural Entecs. The sound was spectacular regardless of the recording which certainly impressed people but quickly became aurally tedious. I tried AP Virgos with a mono Minos and found that the lower the setting of the Minos the better I liked the music and once when my maid unplugged the Minos I listened for days congratulating myself on how well I had dialed it in until I discovered the plug on the floor! Thus began my disaffection with these things. With all due respect I find them to be low frequency reverb devices and little more. Try putting 0.05 msec delay between your R/L mains and see how that "recreates" the concert hall feeling. YMMV and I certainly understand your desire to augment the Stax which I agree is an awesome midrange mindblower. However there is no subwoofer on the planet that I have found to improve the sound of my W/P 7s, even Wilson's own WatchDog or Pow Wow. But I have certainly found a few that will "blow away" my guests and any semblance of real music as well. I've conceded the match but truly respect that you have take up the banner.

Good listening and Happy Thanksgiving to all, indeed (unless you're Canadian, of course).

Frogman you are a good sport and I do appreciate your perspective. I literally tried for years to mate various subs with speakers whose midrange was glorious but low end insufficient. Perhaps the most entertaining combo I devised was ML CLSs with binaural Entecs. The sound was spectacular regardless of the recording which certainly impressed people but quickly became aurally tedious. I tried AP Virgos with a mono Minos and found that the lower the setting of the Minos the better I liked the music and once when my maid unplugged the Minos I listened for days congratulating myself on how well I had dialed it in until I discovered the plug on the floor! Thus began my disaffection with these things. With all due respect I find them to be low frequency reverb devices and little more. Try putting 0.05 msec delay between your R/L mains and see how that "recreates" the concert hall feeling. YMMV and I certainly understand your desire to augment the Stax which I agree is an awesome midrange mindblower. However there is no subwoofer on the planet that I have found to improve the sound of my W/P 7s, even Wilson's own WatchDog or Pow Wow. But I have certainly found a few that will "blow away" my guests and any semblance of real music as well. I've conceded the match but truly respect that you have take up the banner.

Good listening and Happy Thanksgiving to all, indeed (unless you're Canadian, of course).