Listening Fatigue

Sure, Sean. I'd be happy to address the first part. But I'm not going to pretend to be an electrical engineer by explaining exactly how a line-conditioner does what it does. That is, so long as you promise not to pretend either. :)

How I would describe what a 'proper' line conditioner attempts to do includes the following:

1) A well designed line-conditioner attempts to dramatically lower the noise floor revealing tremendous amounts of true, subtle, low level musical detail. This detail that was previously masked has a tremendous impact on the ability of the listener to connect with the music.

2) A well designed line-conditioiner attempts to reduce AC noise by removing the A/C RFI and EMI noise that is ubiquitous in every system to various degrees. These noise artifacts have the effect of artificially highlighting frequencies where the noise manifests itself. Also, the noise artifacts are amusical and instead of these frequencies adding to the musical experience, they cause listening fatigue and unnatural listener tension that ultimately reduces and more often eliminates the ability of the listener to connect with the music. Classic manifestations of this type of noise are unnatural/negative vocal sibilance not present in the original recording and distortions on crash cymbals and high hats in drum kits. The presence of external A/C RFI and EMI noise causes these sibilances and cymbals to separate from the musical tapestry and they appear to separate from the soundstage. They are so easy to pick out once the phenomena is pointed out that even casual listeners can pick them out with ease. Because these distortions are errors of commission, where the noise floor effect discussed in a) above is an error of omission, they are, for me, the greatest reason that a system fails to communicate the musical message.

3. A well designed line-conditioner attempts to induce no sonic harm of it's own. ie the rather common suppression (rolled off) of offending frequencies as you implied above.

4. A well designed line-conditioner attempts to avoid being the bottleneck with regard to current limitations.

5. A well designed line-conditioner attempts to provide bi-directional noise filtering. A tremendous benefit for anyone using a cdp since the digital noise generated will most always inject digital noise even all the way back into the service panel and hence contaminate other components if left untreated.

6. A well designed line-conditioner attempts to best utilize a one line-conditioner per component only. Surely this is the most effective way to keep noise from contaminating other components as well as the optimal way to take full advantage of dedicated circuits/lines.

I hope this helps educate you a bit regarding 'proper' line-conditioning. If you have any other questions, you know where to reach me. :)

-IMO

Stehno: Thanks for the schooling. I do have a few more questions for you though : )

1) How can "out of band" noise that is supposedly hundreds of KHz / MHz above the audible passband affect the clarity of the signal that we hear from our speakers?

2) How does one remove the aforementioned offending noises?

I don't want to take up all the time that you have for class, but i can't wait to get to the technical stuff. I'm sure that with a little help from you, this thread will clear up all the pre-conceived notions and lack of understanding that i had about power line conditioners and how they work : ) Sean
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Sean, you little turkey. And after all we've been thru together? :) You're darned and determined to make me into a sub-par electrical engineer, aren't you? For pete's sake, don't we already have enough of those lying around? :)

But in all seriousness, would you agree or disagree with my previous post describing the basics on what 'proper' line-conditioning should attempt to do?

Also, would you please share what, if any, line-conditioning products and/or strategies you own?

And how does your own line-conditioning and/or strategies used in your system meaure up against what 'proper' line-conditioning should attempt to do? (whether you use my stated definition, your own, or another's)

-IMO

Some "listening fatigue" is just the effect of sitting alone in the dark late at night drinking wine and/or single malt.

Stehno: I could easily answer all of your questions, but i'll refrain from doing so at this time. I'll be glad to do so once we've resolved what is already on our plates. After all, first things first : )

You challenged the statements that i made, now i'm asking for an explanation of your statements and how you arrived at the beliefs that you did. If i'm wrong, i'd like to understand where i went wrong and how i can correct the flaws in my thought process.

Not only did you challenge my statements, but you also challenged my level of education and experience on the subject. As such, i really can't understand why you would defer the questions that i asked you back to me? It is obvious that you already have all of the answers and understanding required to solve this puzzle, so how could i hope to compete with that???

With that in mind and for the future edification of myself and all of Audiogon, please clarify your comments for us. You can do so by answering the questions that i've previously provided for you. Since you proclaim to be well educated and experienced in the subject at hand, the floor is yours. After all, who am i to challenge such a proclamation? Your answers will obviously demonstrate the authoritative level of understanding that you have on the subject. I'll only ask questions as it pertains to the subject at hand and the previous comments that were made. I just hope that i'll be able to keep up with your teachings and fully comprehend the technical explanations that you'll offer in support of your statements. Sean
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