Listening Fatigue

Stehno: I could easily answer all of your questions, but i'll refrain from doing so at this time. I'll be glad to do so once we've resolved what is already on our plates. After all, first things first : )

You challenged the statements that i made, now i'm asking for an explanation of your statements and how you arrived at the beliefs that you did. If i'm wrong, i'd like to understand where i went wrong and how i can correct the flaws in my thought process.

Not only did you challenge my statements, but you also challenged my level of education and experience on the subject. As such, i really can't understand why you would defer the questions that i asked you back to me? It is obvious that you already have all of the answers and understanding required to solve this puzzle, so how could i hope to compete with that???

With that in mind and for the future edification of myself and all of Audiogon, please clarify your comments for us. You can do so by answering the questions that i've previously provided for you. Since you proclaim to be well educated and experienced in the subject at hand, the floor is yours. After all, who am i to challenge such a proclamation? Your answers will obviously demonstrate the authoritative level of understanding that you have on the subject. I'll only ask questions as it pertains to the subject at hand and the previous comments that were made. I just hope that i'll be able to keep up with your teachings and fully comprehend the technical explanations that you'll offer in support of your statements. Sean
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Good greif, Sean. Here we go again. SSS.

I suppose I deserve some of this for a few of the jabs I gave. But knowing you as I do and knowing what you were up to, I simply could not resist. Let me explain what I mean by this:

Initially, you made some general comments about line-conditioning and line-conditioners. If I recall, you made a broad sweep looping all line-conditioners into the same category with pretty much the same deficiencies or design flaws.

Innocently enough, I responded by attempting to clarify or add a little specificity to your broad-brush statements regarding potentially all line-conditioners. There was no challenge there, only my attempt to clarify or confirm that you really meant all line-conditioners.

You began the challenge phase by questioning me regarding what I think a 'proper' line-conditioner should attempt to do. And this is where you thought you could trap me, believing that I may not be able to provide a sufficient response.

I responded to your question (or at least the first pertinent part) by providing valid and perhaps irrefutable answers and at the same time I threw a few jabs out there. But only because I wanted you to know that I knew what you were up to (again). And I knew it would drive you a little nuts. My bad.

You realizing that you did not trap me there, and knowing that you'd have to take things to the next level, decided to pursue your course of entrapment (again). Even though you know full well I have no electrical engineering background, by this time your ego's already on auto-pilot and your going to make me into an EE.

In addition, you charge me with 'challenging' you as if I would have committed some sort of criminal act had I done so. Really, Sean. Any idea why it's called 'open' forum?

But again, it was you who initiated things. Your whole existence in this forum has been just one continuous challenge. Just go thru some of your 4000+ posting and the some to many that had to be pulled. Go figure. But we've covered much of this before.

Anyway, rather than blindly follow your lead down that path, knowing exactly what you are up to, I decided to go back to my safety zone of real world applications and simply asked you what you did to resolve your own AC problems.

Again, knowing you as I do, I knew at this point that it would be far easier for me to answer your electrical engineering questions than it would be for you to answer my real-world application questions.

And now you're convinced that you have set me up under the spotlight and you've dragged me in front of the whole forum and now I must pretend to be an electrical engineer for not only you but for all of A'gon. Gee, are you having a deja vu too? Sorry, but Homey still don't play that game.

I will say this Sean. It always troubles me whenever you use plurals like we, us, etc.. For you always use such plurals to try to impress on the reader the false sense of authority that everybody is behind you and that you are their official grand poobah. But that's a whole nuther subject, eh? And I hope that we've covered that one.

But take for example your comments a while back regarding Marty DeWulf of Bound for Sound, you said (paraphrasing): "We can't believe everything Marty is telling us these days."

Who's the we here? Do you have a little mouse in your pocket?

-IMO

Stehno: We could play games here forever. I made statements that i'll be glad to explain. You made specific statements that you can't and / or won't explain. Who's the person making comments about something that they don't understand, can't explain and repeating what they've been told by some third party?

THAT'S why i asked what i did i.e. i was trying to get you to "prove" your point, just as you have asked me to support my points in the past. If you actually knew something about what you were talking about, you could support your statements. The fact that you chose not to and tried to put it back to me pretty much explains itself. Your "half-answer" was meant to deflect how obviously cornered you were. That is, you ran your mouth but can't support the how's & why's of your critical comments.

You see, that's the whole problem with "open forums". While they are great in the fact that ANYBODY can ask questions and ANYBODY can share their thoughts, people that know nothing are soon treated as "experts" with little to no background on the subject. This is how "audio myths" get started and are perpetuated far longer than they should be allowed to. Those that try to dispell those myths, aren't afraid to "tell it like it is" and have the technical background to do so get castrated by those in control. That's because the audio industry pretty much survives on snake-oil and corruption. The more that the customers are kept in the dark, the easier it is to pick their pockets. The old motto of "an educated customer is the best customer" RARELY applies to anything in "hi-end" audio.

Like i said, i've never run away from explaining my statements or supporting my point of view, nor have i ever run away from discussions with those that have opposing points of view. If you look through my "4000+ posts" that you claim i've made, you'll also see more than a few instances where i've specifically asked others to correct any "mis-information" that i've posted. I'm not above being wrong, making mistakes or correction. As such, i don't take kindly to piss-ants crawling out of the woodwork to annoy / antagonize / play games with me when they can't even have a decent conversation about the subject. On top of that, I really don't like when they approach me with smart-ass comments that are completely insincere, wishing me well and then insulting me and the effort that i've put into helping to educate those that are willing to learn while breaking down audio myths.

As far as the situation that you mention between myself and a specific "reviewer", I'll just say that you probably aren't aware of all of the information that i'm privy to. If you were, you would understand why i made the statements that i did. Then again, maybe i'm giving you too much credit for being "reasonable" and / or a logical individual.

As far as "we" are concerned, i sometimes take the liberty of speaking for the mouse in my pocket and other audiophiles when responding to comments made as a blanket statement. The only time that i did this in this thread is when i asked how "we" could hear some of the things through our speakers that you are describing. The only ones that seem to mind me speaking for them are the ones' that talk trash on a regular basis, can't support their statements and / or try to manipulate the information available in these threads for their own financial gain. Which one of the three different categories do you fall into? Sean
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PS... This thread is nothing less than fatiguing to say the least.

Stehno: By the way, i never "a broad sweep looping all line-conditioners into the same category with pretty much the same deficiencies or design flaws". It was you that commented that line conditioners that shared a specific design concept were "flawed" and / or poor performers. That's why i asked you to explain what you thought the goals of a good line conditioner should be and how they could go about achieving those goals without resorting to the design concept that i mentioned and you criticized. Once again, you try to paint me as something that i'm not and turn the table on me when it was YOU that were guilty of the charges that you're levying against me. This in itself demonstrates your insincerity and level of integrity. I hope that i wasn't the only one that caught this. Sean
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This is rather interesting, Sean. I suspect by this time tomorrow night, you will have fabricated quite a case against me.

I'm not ignoring you, well perhaps I am. I'm just dying to see where you take this before I feel I need to step in to rescue you.

Now remember the rules, Sean. No name calling like the first time (remember my ears aren't garbage pails), no calling me out onto the playground like both times before, no gouging of the eyes, no wedgies, um, I forget the other one.

-IMO