Phase Coherence or Time Alignment: Which More Imp?

Skrivis, I was refering to major manufactures of well established companies. It is good to hear that Bud Fried's work is being carried on. I always had a ton of respect for him and was sorry to see his passing. Audio lost another great man. If I may quote something he said, "Someday, all speakers will be time and phase coherent." He truly believed in this concept.
I didn't want to say much about Pat McGinty because I really have no first hand knowledge other than he closed shop. I wouldn't think a man of his potential would stay down for whatever reason. I agree with you and would expect his return in the future. Lets hope so.
So far, in the time and phase camp, I have tried Meadowlark, Vandersteen and Thiel. I have really got to try Roy Johnson's designs out at some point. I also go back to listen to steep slope speakers from time to time to help keep my perspective. Now that my kids are out of college and out of the house, I have plenty of free time. It's nice to get back into enjoying the hobby again.

After this and other long, fact filled threads on the topic, we still don't know that Fried did not and doesn't make time aligned speakers.

He believed in first order series crossovers.

On that topic if Roy Johnson happens to read this: What about the higher order series crossovers like the Kaminsky? They claim phase coherence. Have you studied these? Thanks.

It has been a while. I recall seeing phase coherence but not time coherence. I did not pursue Kaminsky's work because it could only be implemented in an active crossover. Again, it has been many years, and I could be thinking of something or someone else. What I remember for certain about Kaminsky's work is that it was excellent, and it is worth examining again. Thank you for the reminder.

Series crossovers have advantages, and disadvantages. We use parallel circuits, which seem to have fewer disadvantages. I do not agree with statements like "better dynamic coupling of the drivers, using a series circuit", as I have never seen any definition of what that actually means.

Bud Fried made so many important contributions- he will be missed. The first speakers I heard that opened my ears in many, many ways were his original IMF transmission line speakers, in 1972.

Warmest regards, Bud. Thank you for everything.
Roy Johnson
Founder and Designer
Green Mountain Audio

First order crossovers, 6 db per octave, are the only one's which 'supposedly' offer the least phase shift, that is energy storage, and shift from one driver to the next.
The issue at hand is the enormous amount of work that each driver, since it rolls in and rolls out at 6 db per octave, has to operate over too wide of a frequency bandwidth,causing notable limitations in dynamics , or distortions which are unacceptably high.
When I worked for THIEL Jim Thiel would attempt to compensate (in part) by using special pole piece which allowed for linear treatment of the magnetic field over the coil in the driver throughout its proposed excursion, since that excursion was by necessity very long throw. This is like saying the sky is blue, because the ocean is too. It is a self defeating, and repeating argument, and certainly a condrum for designers who chose to use this cross over design.
Some designers, feel that first order crossovers place too many negatives in the picture for a natural and relaxed sound; not to mention that the lobing effects of the drivers at various distances (you do the math) causes frequency anomolies, such as suck outs and the inverse, causing room reflexions which look nothing like the output at the speaker. That may sound benign, but imagine, every echo and room reflexion sounding different than the signal at 8 feet, or at your listening position, this causes for a confused signal to the listener. So, some question, "what if a combination of slopes could create a sound"... that, at the listener and throughout the room, are close to identical as the actual measured output of the speaker; i.e. no lobing issues, and no tweeter having to operate like this, in this scenario. Using a 3K crossover point as many do, (too high in my opinion) but in that instance, the driver is down 6db at 1500Hz, then 12db @750Hz, 18db @375. (It's after midnight don't check the math with a calculator PLEASE) So significant midrange information is coming from a (generally 1" dome). That, IMHO is too much to ask of a driver of that size and excursion potential. Plus, again the issue of the lobing, caused by sharing of common frequencies, with the mid range, which in turn is also, asked to put out vast quantities of bass, making enormous excursions. A recipe for disaster for the wrong driver.
This first order design is one of those engineering arguments which looks great on paper, but in practice faces significant challenges, and the creation of drivers which operate in a manner not generally available to them by dent of their very design, and the known limits of drivers, given the laws of physics.
Other solutions, other than phase coherence gained through first order networks, IMHO is the answer. But time and space don't allow for all to be said here.

Thank you. Those crossovers interest me, but it seems the patent holder (?) has a kind of underdeveloped speaker site and seems to charge a lot for the speakers, which, of course, I've never heard.