How would you desribe Von Schweiket VR-4jr sound?

re: Kevziek's comments -

"Music lovers" generally choose the material (software) they listen to based on these 3 factors in this order:

1st. How much they enjoy the composition/songwriting
2nd. The quality of the performance
3rd. The sonic attributes of the recording

"Audiophiles" one could argue, reverse those priorities.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of music that rates highly by 1. and 2. above was NOT recorded with audiophiles in mind. Therefore, if your analysis is correct, you have just established that these speakers will not produce an experience that appeals to "music lovers" most of the time.

Now "audiophiles" on the other hand, generally are looking to go a little more high end than the JR's which apparently are not finished particularly well and certainly have arguable sonic compromises. (Complicated 4th order crossovers, rear-firing "ambience" tweeters, and ported cabinets disqualify it as far as I'm concerned.)

So the audience that will be truly happy with JR's is "audiophiles" who can't presently afford more, or "music lovers" without very discerning ears.

This probably explains why a fair number of JR's started showing up for sale used pretty early on in the product's life/hype-cycle. Which is not to say they don't work for some people - but clearly there are valid reasons that they don't work for others.

Opalchip: This post sought opinions from people who have owned or auditioned the VR-4JR. Have you? Based on your comments I tend to doubt it. Also, a fair number of everything shows up on Audiogon. That's just the nature of this hobby and it means nothing. What do you own and what qualifies you as a judge of these or any speakers?

I think both Kevziek and Opalchip make very good points. Kevziek, a knowledgeable and experienced audiophile, has purchased a product that satisfies his musical needs. I cannot think of a single product that will truly satisfy a majority, let alone all audiophiles. Audiogon attracts people who are looking for the best bang for the buck, giant killer products and based upon the rave reviews and owners' comments the VS4Jr would seem to be a perfect example. The fact that so many then show up for resale simple proves the one size doesn't fit all in the audiophile world. You might not like Opalchip's reasoning, but it's nothing to get defensive about.

It's not that I don't like Opalchip's reasoning. It's just that it is fundamentaly wrong. His logic is confused also. And it would help if he actually listened to the speakers that he has an opinion on. Everything he mentioned was from previous posts in this thread. He mentioned nothing from actual experience.

First of all, his assumptions about audiophiles and music lovers priorities was made up out of his head. Where is it written as fact that those are the priorities?

Secondly, there isn't a speaker out there that can reveal less on bad recordings and reveal more on good recordings. You need quality recordings to and quality equipment to get closer to the music. There is no cure for bad recordings. Some speakers reveal less detail and hide some bad recordings, but then they would have to do the same on good recordings.

he says "(Complicated 4th order crossovers, rear-firing "ambience" tweeters, and ported cabinets disqualify it as far as I'm concerned.)" --> an ignorant statement that would disqualify him as anyone with a lick of sense. These all enhance the sound quality, extension, and soudstage. These speakers wouldn't sound as great as they do without them.

Did you ever think that the reason there are so many VR4jr's for sale is because so many people bought them in the first place (you can't sell what you didn't get to begin with) and are upgrading just like a lot of people on Agon. The $4k price point tends to be a middle ground not where people stop and say they've arrived. In fact, I know a couple of people that are moving up to the VR4sr's and that's why they are selling their VR4jr's.

Rob

Robm321, you're proving Opalchip's point about audiophile when you say "You need quality recordings to and quality equipment to get closer to the music." Only an audiophile would say that. But then again, you love your speakers, just like Opalchip said you would.

Let's be reasonable folks and agree to disagree. I mean it's not like anyone's claiming the VS4Jrs are as good as the speakers I own.