How would you desribe Von Schweiket VR-4jr sound?

I'm baaaaaack - I can't let this kind of behavior go, and I'm tempted to report it. Robm is an angry guy, that's OK with me. His post wasn't exactly accurate (that's an understatement) but so be it. But the intentional, in-your-face-lying by Kevziek is not excusable. There have been 26 posts previous posts asking for direct advice on vr4-jr's qualities for a prospective purchase. I made comments on 4 threads, all of which were solid advice and 2 of which were tilted in favor of the VR-4 JR's. IMHO the type of behavior exhibited by these two has no place on Audiogon.

Here is a list of the thread titles followed by whether or not I posted. In addition my relevant quotes are copied verbatim below along with a couple of their direct quotes from these same threads (an interesting read):

Thread Title----------------------------------------Post by opalchip
Von Schweikert VR-4 GEN.III SE -VS- VR-4 JR?........No
Von Schweikert VR-4 Jr Room and amp Requirements....No
Von Schweikert VR-4,Jr..............................No
Thiel CS6 to Von Schweikert VR4 JR - Am i Crazy?....Yes
Vandersteen 3A Sig vs. Von Schweikert VR4 Jr........Yes
Speakers that work close to the back wall...........No
Schweikert VR4-Jr vs. Gallo Reference 3 with SA.....No
Best Speaker Match for JC-1's : VMPS or Von S.?.....No
What speakers to replace Paradigm 100.2? Help.......No
Vr4jr and Contour 3.3, In the same league??.........No
Finish Quality of Von Schweikert VR4jr's............No
Von Schweikert VR4jr................................No
Finish Quality of Von Schweikert VR4jr's(#2)........Yes
Von Schweikert VR4jr's in a 15' x 12' Room?.........No
Please help me on a speaker selection...............No
Are the Von Schweikert VR-4JRs really all that?.....No
Is this nuts? (urge to try the VSA VR4Jr).............No
VR-4JR or USHER 6371.................................No
vr4 Jr vs. B&W Signature 805.......................... No
von Schweikert VR4 Jr ............................... No
Bag End TA15 vs. Von Schweikert VS4 series.............No
Von Schweikert VR-4,Jr. .............................No
B&W 703 or VR4 jr?.....................................No
VR-4jr or Gallo Nucleus Reference 3....................Yes
Von Schweikert VR-4 GEN.III SE -VS- VR-4 JR?............No
Von Schweikert VR4-Jr: Urgent Opinions Needed...........No

THREAD-- Thiel CS6 to Von Schweikert VR4 JR
Should poster replace Thiel CS6's with JR's? OPALCHIP says -"VR4 Gen. III se's maybe, VR6 maybe - not VR4jr's"

THREAD-- Vandersteen 3A Sig vs. Von Schweikert VR4 Jr
OPALCHIP says -"(Choose Vr4-jr's for) Rock, yes. Large scale Classical, maybe. Hip Hop, definitely. Jazz and acoustic - no way. The Vandersteens are what you would be happier with."

THREAD-- Finish Quality of Von Schweikert VR4jr's
OPALCHIP says -"Used JR's are showing up pretty frequently with resale prices fairly low (for some reason). Some sellers have priced them under $2000 already, and at that price I wouldn't complain."

THREAD-- VR-4jr or Gallo Nucleus Reference 3
OPALCHIP says -"I'm not going to get into what I would buy, because that's purely a personal preference. But if you must pick one of those 2 - my opinion is that the VR4jr's are both more versatile and musical."

KEVZIEK says in this same thread "Yes, the Cherry veneer is way too revealing of flaws, and I think the speakers should be finished better, particularly the Cherry. My pair is African Hazelwood, and they were a handpicked pair. My finish is quite good, but I do agree there could be more coats of a better urethane."

INTERESTING - "HANDPICKED". HMMMMMMM...

THREAD--Bag End TA15 vs. Von Schweikert VS4 series
Robm says - "Good for you! I love my VS speakers, but they aren't for everyone."

FUNNY - THAT'S ABOUT ALL I'VE SAID HERE AND BEEN BASHED OUTRAGEOUSLY FOR IT.

Opalchip
LOL - you must sure have a lot of free time on your hands LOL
No offence man... its just funny the lengths some folks go to make a point on this forum... Did you actually go back and go thru all those threads?... thats funny.

Good listening

Hi Arkio - Yes it did cut into my listening time tonight, but you just can't let that kind of bull be perpetrated on a personal level. Heated debate about speaker design is fine, or audiophile vs. musicphile is fine*** - that's what the Audiogon boards are for. But nothing I posted even remotely justifies these falsefications and personal attacks. It's just nuts. I've really never encountered this kind of thing here before.

Also - one admission to Kevziek - in my first response to you where I said you were bashing me, I was incorrect. I had been looking at Robm's post and mixed it up with yours. So maybe it put you in a bad mood, but even before that you were warping my statements and intentions in your post, and put things on a personal level. With statements like:

"you criticize a brilliant engineer like Albert Von Schweikert for his engineering choices" - which I absolutely didn't and wouldn't do anywhere.

And "So, your implication is that... I'm an 'audiophile' with a negative connotation" - which I patently stated you misconstrued based on zero evidience, and that you're still asserting.

And you ask "What qualifications do you have in speaker design to so strongly criticize...?" - Of course, if you look back objectively at my first post, I hadn't strongly criticized ANYTHING. I had said the JR's weren't for me and stated why - plain and simple.

So it wasn't "bashing", and I apologize for calling it that - but it's sure wasn't nice, and I did nothing to provoke it. And it's completely out of place on a board where speaker design is the main topic of conversation.

And now, the obsequious "apology" to Robm321 for "how you've been treated here" must appear very odd to anyone who has read his insulting fusillades at other posters. (Sorry for the big words again.)

***BTW - Just for fun, here are the top 3 defintions of "audiophile" found on Google / Answers.com:

"1.au·di·o·phile (ô'dē-ə-fīl') pronunciation
n. A person having an ardent interest in stereo or high-fidelity sound reproduction.

2. audiophile
An individual who is very interested and enthusiastic about the sound quality of a stereo or home theater system. Sometimes, audiophiles are more passionate about the equipment being used than the music itself.

3. An audiophile (literally, "one who loves sound") is one who is concerned with achieving high-quality results in the recording and playback of music. Audiophile values may be applied at all stages of the chain: the initial audio recording, the production process, and the playback (usually in a home setting). The adjective "high-end" is commonly applied to audiophile vendors, products, and practices.

There is great skepticism outside the audiophile community surrounding whether these practices and products have the claimed effects on the listening experience, and there are often accusations of self-delusion. People on both sides of the debate concede that, since many audiophiles are laymen, they are vulnerable to exploitation by fanciful claims made by unethical vendors."

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Interesting, eh? Anyway, I really am done this time as I can't justify putting any more energy into this idiocy.

Kevziek,

Thank you for the support.

Opalchip,

Get some professional help soon. I'm worried about you. I do care.

Rob

There are a few lessons to be learned here. The first is that not everyone is qualified to assess the accuracy of a speaker. It would be like me trying to judge poodles in a dog show. There would be a lot of unhappy dog owners -- and rightfully so.

Despite their good intentions, a lot of people simply don't have the trained ears or the points of reference to know whether a speaker (or entire system) is accurate. And if you fall into the camp that doesn't care if a speaker is accurate (i.e., it's all a matter of personal taste and what you like is what counts), that's fine, but I think the majority of audiophiles are in search of an accurate system. And accuracy isn't subjective.

I've owned lots of high-end speakers (amps, preamps, transports, processors and CD players, too), including Dunlavy SC-IV/A, Vandersteen 3A Signature, Quad 988, and the VR-4Jr. definitely holds its own against any of these. For example, it's far more revealing than the Vandersteen, which is a fine speaker, but no matter what I did, in my room at least, it couldn't approach the transparency and resolution of the Von Schweikert. And the VR-4Jr. offers better dynamics and bass extension than the 988. I can't say they're better -- or even as good -- as the SC-IV/A, but they're less than half the price and they don't get embarrassed by the big (and that's a problem) Dunlavy.

As for Opalchip's assertion that you can't judge a person's hearing by his/her equipment, on the contrary. I think it speaks volumes. If someone is slamming something, I want to know what he listens to. If it's Bose 901s and a Yamaha receiver, that's all I need to know. Also, like Kevziek, I'm a musician and studied for several years with a member of the Detroit Symphony. I know what live unamplified instruments are supposed to sound like.

The VR-4Jr. speakers are far from perfect, but they're mighty good at the $4k price point.