Any thoughts on removing a preamp from your system

I had a good experience some years ago in my sunroom system.

I ran a Mark Levinson 390s cd player directly into a Pass Aleph 3 amp, driving a pair of ProAc 1SCs. Supplemented at the low end with a REL subwoofer. Cardas Golden Cross interconnects and biwire speaker wire. The system sounded great.

The ML 390s had an analog volume control that preserved the detail of the music and it also had a digital input for another component that could be switched in. No preamp needed.

Another combo that worked for me was a bedroom system. My sources were a SAE 8000 fm tuner and a Sony disc player. I used a passive Promethius preamp that used a transformer for volume control, and this fed a Carver M-500t amp connected to a pair of Thiel 3.6s. Not expecting too much, I was surprised at the smoothness and dynamics of the setup. Not having an active preamp did not seem a problem.

One thing I have noticed is that most of my line level sources have more than enough voltage to play quite loudly through my amps. Most of the time, my active preamps are just attenuating the signal. Very rarely do I ever play music so loudly that I feel the preamp is actually amplifying the signal. If I lived in an apartment or someplace close to neighbors, I would never play so loudly.

Hello guys

This is my first post and I have been on Audiogon for a number of years now.

My question to the group is, have any of you removed your preamp completely from your system? Run your front ends straight to your amp? And, what benefits have you noticed, if any.

And finally, if you have used a passive preamp in your system, what are your thoughts on the setup?

I understand one would need to have some sort of "pot" in the signal path to regulate volume.

Herb

Hi Herb, look at this thread, it will explain most of all you need to know. And look at what Nelson Pass has to say about passive preamps in the 7th post.

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1400932591&&&/Passive-preamp-w-Rogue-Medusa-and-Rega-D

And keep an eye on this thread for results for direct in observations on the sound when he does it.
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1401842543&&&/Mark-Levinson-no-20-monoblocks

Cheers George

A few thoughts based on my experience, which over the last 25 years has followed a convoluted path, from integrated amp, to no preamp with no volume attenuation, to passive with buffer, to another passive with buffer, to endler resistor based volume control, to Promethius Ref 4 TVC, to Promethius Signature TVC, and finally to Coincident Statement Line Stage.

Based on my experience, one can certainly go without a preamp if one is single sourced. If the source has a digital volume control, that is good. No ability to attenuate the volume gets old pretty quickly. My path was driven by economics more than anything else. I think you can do very well in a carefully built system pretty cheaply using passive volume control, particularly transformer volume control designs. I would still prefer an excellent passive to an average active.

I don't think you can get to the ultimate level without a top notch active preamp. It is more than just volume control and source switching. You need the active pre to drive the amps. Most sources just can't do that well. There could be other issues at work, but the results in my system were undeniable. Everything--- dynamics, image, resolution, you name it. Every aspect of musical reproduction was improved by adding the Coincident CSL to my system.

It is my opinion that a top notch active preamp should be the ultimate goal in every system, money permitting. But one does have some pretty good relatively inexpensive options while on that path.

06-04-14: Mapman
YEs, but the question is, why?

I can see how the proper eletronic mating might be trickier with a passive, but I cant see a disadvantage if done right

I can't see sound waves either, yet they are there. My ears tell me the difference, not my eyes. I can't explain why anymore than I can explain why a power cord can make a difference, or tubes sound better to me than solid state.

I'm sure that someone can probably come up with some techno-marketing buzz words that may help you understand why, but in the end, all the proof you should need is in the listening. Trust your own ears.

Ebm, R U sure?