Home Theater IMAX Experience w/ A Robinson-Youtube

Zd542, you are correct we will have to agree to disagree and yes audio is very objective.Thank you for the mutual respect.The op has a valid point there are right and wrong ways to do things in the a/v world. Case in point, my father in-law has a 55" led lcd that he insists looks fantastic on the sports setting, every time I'm there I have to re calibrate his set because people are not orange and black is not grey.Now to be fair I do things wrong in my own set up. I have a 120" screen that I sit 12' away from and at times because my siting distance is to close ( the science of how our eyes perceive things at different distances dictates this)on a very busy action scene it can be distracting. I know it's wrong but I like my big screen and 95% of the time it works fine. The men at Dolby laboratory have spent decades figuring how to do surround the right way. They set parameters to follow if you want the best experience. Not to get to philosophical here but there are universal truths and this applies to a/v too. You also asked for evidence of my claim that company's sell magic and call it science, most commonly called snake oil in a/v circles. So here it is, and the site I linked has many great articles on various myths that many call truth with evidence to back it up. http://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/top-ten-signs-an-audio-cable-vendor-is-selling-you-snake-oil

Criderfive,

Thanks for the answer. You did take the time to give me a quality response, so I just want to clarify my position on doing things the "right way". I fully understand that there may be a textbook way to do things. Maybe its something product specific like THX, or maybe its something generic, like room acoustics. What I was trying to say was simply this: Even if you do something exactly the "right" way in audio, quite often people don't like it. For example, you can show someone a system that exhibits, high quality, audiophile bass, and they still prefer crappy one note bass from something like a car stereo. Over the years, I've found that you just can't force people to like something just because you do, or because its the "right way".

As far as the Bose comment, I know that I may have throne you off on that a bit on that one. I'm pretty sure you were talking theater in the more traditional sense (THX, Dolby Digital, 5.1 etc.). The topic of this thread is to try and reproduce the IMAX experience. For IMAX audio, Bose is what they use. That, of course, leaves the door open to say that you have to use Bose speakers to do it right. I won't lie, every time I re read this quote from the OP, I start laughing: "For example: in the IMAX series, he suggests that, since you can do an "inspired" IMAX system, you can pretty much just chose any type of loud speakers you have laying around the house, and they will work just fine!.". Out with the Wilson's and in with the Bose!

As far as the link to ausioholics, we may still disagree. There's a lot of info and I didn't have a chance to read everything. I use mostly Audioquest cables in my system and read through some back and forth dialog pertaining to them, and found it very interesting. I'll pick out a few quotes and make some comments.

"Audioquest Response

A quick look at your web site gives the impression that you are on a quest to prove that the evaluation of component audio performance is something best determined with test instruments. While I agree that measured performance is important, I'm an old fuddy duddy that still believes that the ear is the best test instrument of all. Years of evaluating (blind) various metals, insulation materials and cable geometry bare this out. That you would include AudioQuest DBS cables.....cables that you've never heard... in your list of audio snake oil makes it quite clear that your mind has already been made up before doing any evaluation at all."

Without doing any type of hands on testing, scientific or not, I can't see that any comments are anything other than a guess.

"Electrical properties of cables are well known and documented from DC up to GHz (reference. Henry Ott,Dr. Howard Johnson, etc). To insist otherwise is futile. Exotic cable psuedo science only exists in consumer audio. Why is that? In our opinion it appears the exotic cable industry thrives on consumer ignorance and a lack of industry checks and balances. Audioquest and other exotic cable vendors claim all sorts of "audible distortions" from cables. Yet they offer no measurable proofs or methods for analysis. Ever hear of a device called the "Audio Precision One". This proven and industry standard audio analyzer is capable of measuring audio distortions well below human audibility. Surely if all of this distortion was present, a simple measurement would prove it. No? Have Audioquest and other exotic cable vendors discovered new types of audible distortions not currently known by proven science and engineering disciplines? If so, why not publish a paper on it at AES or IEEE and have it peer reviewed. It may even be worthy of a Nobel Prize."

That's a fair point if its true. Cable companies like AQ do provide some specs. I can't help but think, though, that if the critic thinks the results from using the Audio Precision Device is so important for an evaluation as to the quality of a cable, why leave it up to AQ to do it (or any other cable company, for that matter.)? Using the machine is his idea, and there is nothing stopping him from doing a test with it.

"Our mind has not been made up about the quality of your cables. Despite your unproven and mostly fictitious claims, if your cables measure well based on proven science (you know lumped element analysis) they may actually perform well. If we had samples to review, we would certainly confirm this. We have no issues with cables costing as much as yours do provided that the supporting claims for the products are based in reality and do not clearly violate engineering and scientific truths while being pawned off as such. Perhaps if you made the consumer aware of the fact that producing cosmetically pleasing cables does carry a considerable manufacturing and materials expense, your price justification would be vindicated."

Complete speculation. How can you say that AQ's claims are mostly fictitious without listing the claims that they think are fictitious? Not only that, I don't see how they can make any claims at all when they haven't so much laid a hand on a pair of cables. And they don't need AQ to send them cables for evaluation. They can get them from Best Buy if they want to test them so badly. Return them when they are done.

"Alternatively we can arrange a controlled DBT with your cables and say 10AWG Zip Cord with a panel of listeners and do a statistical analysis to determine correlation that your cables really do sound "better" and that your reasoning is sound. We are willing to work with you on exposing the truths about your claims to promote better understanding for our readership and the rest of the audio community. Here is your chance to educate the public about a science that is allegedly not well understood and have an independent source peer review and confirm."

Same thing again. Why ask AQ if they want to take part in a DBT and not continue if they don't? Do it anyway. Its a blind test. The results should be identical regardless of weather AQ participates in them.

To sum up, that's my main issue. Critics go on about all of this testing, but they never do it. Why? I could if I really wanted to. There seems to be agreement that well done DBT's would be a big help in determining what claims about cables are true. I agree. No doubt that claims are a mixed bag; some true and some false. But until the critics start actually testing the cables, I just can't take them seriously.

""...Some one actually did take the time to give YOU a quality response??...Electrical properties of Audioquest cables, speaker cable distortions, and mixed bag of claims for well done DBT's????..subjectively crappy car stereo experiences and Bose "Cube"(?) IMAX flippin' theater failings????!!!!"" ..WELL GE!..IM ALL,LIKE,CONFUSE-IFIED!!!
Someone here give me an "AMEN!" -that ALL this contribe chat-spat sounds like a bunch of argumentative forum-room dribble, and decades old flash-backs of Ott and Doc Johnson's "double blindfold interconnect and 12gauge loudspeaker cable testing's, prove no sonic performance difference in audio cables argument!" leftovers from a multitude of timewasting threads gone bye, if you ask me!!? ...MMAAARRVELLOUS!!
Yes, certain AVforum chat-cacklers here,..you can blow off all you like in stating that "there are no realities, facts, or real actual conslusives" for any of this, and insinuate that any typical Samsung Galaxy 5 smartphone's video experience, with Apple Iphones audio, is as good as any IMAX's! -and that, really, none of us Professional AV guys know what they hell we're talking about!! TeerrrRRIIIFIC!
ZD452,I'm certain about one thing..and that's the vast majority of us here (I'm taking liberties) know exactly how likely crap-tastic any system you're going to put together, from your actual efforts are going to perform, and so I, for one, don't personally need to waste my time coming over to your place for any sort of "come over to my place for the demo of a life time system" screening!!..CAUSE I WON'T BE ABLE TO HEAR THE ACTUAL SYSTEM PLAYING, OVER YOUR UNCEASING NON-SENSE OPINIONS!!! -been there and done that, umpteen bazillion times over the years with many other of the opine's on these forums, and I'm pretty sure that NO ONE'S GOING TO BE IMPRESSED! That IS a given, if there ever was one! But you keep up the good fight of spouting more air, and less examples of what the vast majority of any comparing would find a high end experience!!
...in the mean time (I was referring to Bose "Cubes/lifestyle" systems, ..not some custom active high end Bose offering, that no one can get for their home system anyway...nor should they.), I'll just keep on getting REAL MONEY PAID TO ME, for actual REAL quality system installs and builds....cause I know nothing, apparently.
FTR,ZD452, we all think you're cool, edgy and informed! ..of what, I have NO IDEA...

Oh and, FTR,.. gourmet restaurant food, upscale fashion as well as hi-end commuter automobiles are all subjective realities too!!. -you see, cause no one can factually argue that McDonnalds isn't ACTUALLY the best tasting food ever offered, nor is a $100k Mercedes any better than a golf cart, as a commuter car, either!
Point well made sir!...there are no realities. ..It's all merely an illusion. ...at least in your funky world
BRAVO!!
..Do you have a radio show on somewhere I can tune into, by chance?

Avgoround,

What I really don't understand here why you bothered to post this question to begin with? You're so emotionally caught up in your position on this, why ask people for their opinions?

"Looking for input on what others think of the series, the expressed opinions and suggestions vs your personal opinions, experiences, and competing advice on doing dedicated home theater?" - Your words.

I'm really not trying to be mean by saying this, but you can't handle this discussion. What's the big deal if people don't always agree on things. That's the whole point of these forums. You seem particularly upset about me thanking Criderfive for giving me a quality answer. Why? He's one of the few people that have ever given me anything to support the type of argument he makes. So what if I read the AQ article and didn't agree with it. If you think something else, that's fine.

Instead of all the insults and examples that are not relevant to this discussion, why not just point out something I said and ask for clarification? If you don't agree with me, that's fine. But to go on like this is just silly.