Which pre/pro under 3k?

I'm always gunna recommend the high end 2 channel dedicated preamp, mated with the best used high end AV pre-pro you can then afford after Is left over the budget. Otherwise, know you're likely gunna at least compromise the 2 channel ultimate quality, trying to find the "do-all" AV pre to do all duties! That's my experience over the years, anyway. And, as long as you find a clear, detailed, dynamic sounding AV pre-pro for movie duties, and your HDMI digital connection, you'll still have pretty much the best of both worlds! Just loop the AV pre into your 2 channel analog preamp, and it works great.
If you spend $3k on some older used Krell, Theta, Classe, Meridian, whatever, I still think you lose some on the 2 channel, just keeping it all in digital domain from HDMI, but mileage may vary.
Otherwise, go through the used listings here, and find the best AV processor that fits your budget, and do a google search for a review. Peace...

I have the Yamaha CXA5000, I had a chance to compare it side by side with the Marantz AV7701 and AV8801 in my house. The Yam blows the 7701 away, the 2 channel is better on the Yam vs the 8801, but i believe the HT is better on the 8801, but not $1000 better in price difference. You also have Onkyo 5509 and Integra 80.3 in that range youll want to check out. I didnt use any measuring tools, just my ears.

I use an Onkyo 5509 on my main 2.2 channel (music only) system because it sounds better than the ARC, Joule, and Benchmark pre-amps it replaced. I attribute the improved performance mainly to superior bass management software and Audyssey XT32, but can't say that with certainty. It's always available new for less than $2500 and - from time to time - you'll see a new one under $2K.

Bob,

Several years ago, during the research before I bought my Onkyo, I AB'd a pair of AVRs (Denon?) at a local Magnolia AV showroom just for that purpose. It was one of the few places equipped for rapid switching of AVRs for A/B testing. Unfamiliar room, unfamiliar system, centerboard switching in-line, etc. are appropriate caveats to my final judgement.

I recall that the difference between the AVRs featuring diifferent Audyssey versions was subtle (and might have been due in part to other distinctions between the models) , but that I preferred the xt-32 version for greater clarity/definition in (roughly) the 1 1/2 octaves below middle A. Complex rhythm lines on bass guitar, synth, and/or stand-up bass just popped. Vocals (right up into the middle of most song's vocal range) also seemed generally cleaned up a bit and, overall, I was sold on xt-32.

Once I settled on x-t32, I did decide to save a few bucks with the Onkyo vs the Integra variation. BTW, I've also done less formal A/B comparisons with my own Integra non-xt32 AVR vs my Onkyo xt-32 equipped pre-pro and reached a similar conclusion. I do like xt-32 equipped models better, but it's never Audyssey A/B'd in a vacuum.

For me, the Onkyo's price tag of just over $1500 made it a pretty easy call, because it was still a helluva lot cheaper than the ARC, Joule, etc that I'd previously used. Given that the differences were subtle, I can't say that it's a clear cut call. Were I making a strictly rational value decision, I might have opted to save the money and pass on xt-32.

Martyt