What is best sub to match with Magnepan?

I've tried the little Velodyne SPL 8 and the 12" Rythmiks with my MMGs. The Rythmiks are flat-out better subs and sound better than the Velos IMHO, but both worked very well as far as seamless integration goes. IME, the idea that Maggies aren't "Subwoofer Friendly" doesn't hold water.

I would add that bass management software (like Audyssey) almost assures excellent subwoofer integration while IME trying to do the job by ear is very, very tough.

Others may be more skilled at manual subwoofer integration, so it's...Just IME.

To those who say a dynamic sub can't be mated with Magnepans, I say you just
haven't heard a successful blend yet. I have a successful blen in my house. I
know that mine isn't very ambitious and part of my success is that I'm not trying
to get the subs to do too much. But still, they're very quick and the continuously
variable crossover (which has to be settable to a low enough frequency--e.g., 80
Hz is too high) and 0-360 deg. phase control makes a seamless blend possible.

I also heard a very excellent setup at my local high end store. These guys are
Wilson, Magnepan, Vienna, B&W, Audio Research, VTL, Ayre, etc. dealers, and
they *know* how to get a good setup. In that case it was a pair of Mag 20.1s
(predates the 20.7s) and a pair of JL Fathom F212s, one each sitting alongside a
Maggie panel. This was a totally seamless setup and at a total list price of $25K
could compete with a $68K pair of Wilson Maxxes.

Also, Terry9 has a good point that more planar bass would be the best solution.
Fortunately, Magnepan makes that possible with their DWM panels. Singly, the
DWMs are a pretty good deal. Although they don't do much below 40 Hz, where
else are you going to find a sub with that much speed for $595? It's far cheaper
to add one or even two DWMs to an existing pair of 1.7s than to move up to a
pair of 3.7s.

BTW, I just got my 1.7s on Nov. 16 and I just looooove them. With my little subs
added in, I'm getting sound quality I could only lust after in dynamic speakers
above $10K.

A couple more thoughts: The B&W PV1D is a fast sub with deep reach for sure.
Also consider/audition the better Martin Logan subs, since they are designed to
blend with electrostatic panels.

Among many other speakers through the years including ATCs, Epos, Apogees and Martin Logans, I have owned and enjoyed Magneplanars since I was a junior high school student in the late '70's - from MG-Is to Tympani IVs which I still have today.

Personally, I would never try to combine a dynamic subwoofer with any of them - regardless of price or quality.

I would first consider your room, and experiment by moving your 1.7s closer to the front wall and/or corners.

You can use blue painters tape to mark the positions and may find that even 6 inches will make a significant difference.

At the same time, you can experiment with pushing your listening chair closer to the rear wall.

Unless its your thing to rock out with hip hop or heavy metal, even the smaller Magnepans are capable of rich, magical, three dimensional sound, hence their enduring business and reputations with audiophiles.

In my experience, the people who speak poorly of them are generally dealers who don't sell them.

Cheers,

I have used Rel subs with my MG3.7s with some success. I think one key to a successful pairing of any dynamic sub with Maggies is what Johnny b said above--Don't try to do too much! If you allow the subs to just provide a little foundation at the low end and don't try to achieve + 6 dB at 20 Hz (don't laugh, this is what a few people want) you can make it work with the REL R series subs. Yesterday I played a few minutes of music through the sub without the 3.7s playing. It is amazing how little in an absolute sense is playing, yet how much it adds subjectively. Getting a good integration is easier with two subs in a stereo arrangement than with one blended mono. Also, if you set up the Maggies to do all they can at low frequency (out 4-5 ft from the back wall for instance), it will make the task easier. CWs advice on room set up is excellent, though I respectfully disagree with his absolute avoidance of subs with Maggies.
Finally, I suspect (but haven't heard in my system) the Fathom subs may be superior to the RELs, but at the cost of the Fathoms, you would do better moving up to the 3.7Rs. While they aren't particularly strong below 40 Hz, they are much, much better overall than the 1.7s.

Brownsfan and others,

If you enjoy subs with your Magnepans, that's great and I wish you happiness with your system. And I agree with the observation that yes, you would want them to be as unintrusive as possible or as Brownsfan puts it to not try to do too much!

I am not a bass freak and have generally had bass challenged speakers throughout my life. I do think imaging is one of the greatest things for an audiophile and my understanding is that very low bass can add space, ambience and room size to imaging?

Nonetheless, the reason I am stubborn on this point is that the unique magic of Magnepans comes from their amazing cohesiveness, which is unmatched by most coned speakers.

In my experience, no matter how fast a dynamic speaker is, it will never keep up with a panel or an electrostatic, so there is inevitably some smearing and blurring of the qualities that you might have purchased planar speakers for in the first place.

I had a pair of Martin Logan SL3s years ago where obviously the manufacturer would go to great efforts to blend the woofer and the panel. I sold them because it wasnt even close.

So if you want to use subwoofers, I would first go to the end of the earth and every conceivable effort to extract the best full range, top to bottom, sound that you can from your room and from your Magnepans.

Then and only then I would add your subs back in and as Brownsfan points out, dial them out of the conversation as much as possible.

Finally, those of you who have been doing this for a while may recall an audiophile classic do it yourself speaker in the 70's / 80's as touted by the Absolute Sound: The Infinity QRS - Magneplanar Tympani 1D.

In that case, the best bass in the world was derived by splicing the Mangeplanar BASS panels onto the Infinitys.

So I would definitely also check out the new woofer panels - combined with 1.7s they could be a new giant killer.

Cheers,