Sloped baffle

For a ubitiquous speaker that shows good time alignment, look no further than Vandersteen Model 2. A fair speaker for the price, but a hooded, somewhat grainy sound in the mids and highs with bass that sounds like a cardboard box. So time alignment it has. OK sound for the price. But nothing more than OK. If time alignment were so important, how can this speaker sound so ordinary, so mediocre?

Because extension matters, driver resonance matters, driver distortion matters, driver symmetry of motion matters, overall harmonic distortion matters, intermodulation distortion matters, box colorations matter......and we can go on and on.

So there you have a great example: a manufacturer that makes a barely passable (to my standards) time coherent speaker that I would never own, and he makes a fantastic, state of the art speaker that I would be happy to own. Any more demonstration needed that time coherence is not the most driving factor in the sound?

07-05-14: Kiddman
For a ubitiquous speaker that shows good time alignment, look no further than Vandersteen Model 2............
So there you have a great example: a manufacturer that makes a barely passable (to my standards) time coherent speaker........

Kiddman, you are screwing up again!!
In your 1st sentence you wrote that the Vandy Model 2 has TIME ALIGNMENT.
In a sentence much you lament by saying that the Vandy Model 2 is TIME COHERENT (which is wrong) & how could it be so bad sounding.
The Vandy Model 2 is time-aligned & that's it. The Vandy Model 2 (therefore) is NOT time-coherent.
Time aligned speakers are NOT necessarily time-coherent.
The other way is true - time-coherent speakers are time-aligned.

Ever since you participated in this thread, you have been NOTHING but negative - casting doubt on this subject matter & being insulting - and, yet, you have contributed NOTHING & no information to this thread/subject matter. By reading your posts, other Audiogon members gain no new information except determine that you are a stubborn 'nay-sayer' with perhaps little experience. If you have no positive contribution to make, go find another place to spend your time rather than driving off the other members who come here to learn something new & different. Your negativism benefits nobody....
And, don't cast doubt on my experience & education, you jerk!

Bombaywalla, please list the major speaker brands that are time and phase coherent. At this point, I am aware of three brands: Vandersteen, Thiel and GMA. Are there others?

The reason I ask is because I'd like to check area dealers who sell time and phase coherent models and maybe do some comparative auditioning. The other alternative is audio shows.

Thanks

Kiddman,

You are absolutely right. Solving one issue (If at all, in this case) , while creating many others is a far cry from good engineering, or good sounding loudspeakers. People who get stuck behind “critical” issues, usually do not see the entire forest. Move on, you are wasting good ink.

Bifwynne, yes, I think you have the list.
Single-driver speakers are also time coherent (since they dont have a x-over to begin with) but they might not have the freq range extension you are looking for.

Some of the latest generation Martin-Logans might also be time-coherent (they claim to have made big strides in integrating their woofer with their ESL panel) & the full-range CLX.

Quad speakers are also time-coherent such as the ESL-2085 & they might other models (ESL-989?)

Another brand is Eminent Technology LFT 8. They might have a latter rev of this model, not sure.

Yet another brand would be Sanders Sound Systems 10C & 11 ESLs. You'll find measurements of the Innersound Kaya & Eros Mk3 speakers on Stereophile if you search. Innersound speakers were basically made by the same person who owns Sanders Sound Systems today. I realize that I'm extrapolating since Innersound Kayas were time-coherent that Sanders Sound Systems 10C/11 will also be. This is based on a reasonable assumption that the same designer has not changed his philosophy when he started his new company. Atleast I did not get this impression when I spoke to him in Dec 2013/Jan 2014.

I'm almost willing to say that SoundLab ESLs are also time-coherent but I might be wrong here. Not sure.

That's all I can think of right now. If I think of more brands/models I shall post. Thanks.