Audio Desk Record Cleaner-Anyone buy one yet

Dhcod,

Thanks for your interest. What my partner and I get for our (considerable) trouble is a groove that (to our ears) is as free of contaminants as possible. I'll describe our sonic priorities and then our standards for "clean", which differ from what Mikelavigne and you just mentioned.

MUSIC & SONICS
Our listening is 95% classical and includes a large dose of early/authentic instrument recordings (Hogwood, Harnoncourt, medieval/Renaissance music, etc.) Such music is typically played by smallish ensembles on natural, acoustic instruments having unique harmonic and dynamic characteristics. My partner and I are intimately familiar with the sound of such instruments. In my college days I helped build a harpsichord. One of our friends is a professor of early music at a local university. Listening to him play the same piece on three or four different harpsichords is an education in listening skills and sonic subtleties.

Nobody's stereo can reproduce that but our goal is to come as close as possible. It is very difficult. People who listen primarily to rock or other amplified music typically have different priorities, sensitivities and tolerances.

BEYOND TICKS & POPS, HOW CLEAN IS CLEAN?
Regardless of what sort of music one prefers, a truly clean LP groove is evidenced by more than a lack of ticks and pops. Removing the cause of these is only the first step, and by no means the most important (musically). Further, it's possible to reduce ticks and pops by using cleaning products and processes that leave the groove LESS clean. The absence of ticks and pops is not a reliable indicator of cleanliness.

I can get tick- and pop-free surfaces by using certain "cleaning" products and practices that in fact leave residues. These smooth over irregularities and make for a very quiet (and boring) LP. Anything that masks microscopic irregularities also masks low-level details, complex harmonics and subtle micro-dynamics. This saps the life out of the music we listen to.

A truly clean groove is actually NOISIER than a residue-coated one, because even the tiniest irregularities are bared for the stylus to see. This allows a (suitably responsive and transparent) stereo to reproduce the tiniest groove modulations, which brings the sound of live instruments closer to life.

This is not to say we tolerate clicks and pops. The vast majority of our records are quite free of them. But we achieve this by using products and methods that remove the cause (when possible) rather than slathering over it.

Hope that's helpful,
Doug

P.S. If you have a "clean, silent LP that develops noise over time" then it wasn't clean. Unless your setup is wildly off and your're damaging the vinyl, the only possible source of increasing noise is residues in the groove being disturbed/re-arranged by multiple plays. I'd wager I could make any of your cleaned LP's considerably cleaner. They might sound slightly noisier than when you first cleaned them (due to the elimination of all residues) but the life and dynamics that such cleaning exposes would astound you... at least in our system.

There are a few points which should be realized in cleaning,
-Speed has nothing to do with a better cleaning result
-Cleaning grooves from dirt and removing dust from new records are 2
different chapters.
- Using always new, clean fluid is always superior to a System which uses the
same fluid all over again
- Quality discussions about a Design which was made for Audiophiles or serious
Dealers should be seen different.
- Physics and opinions are also 2 different chapters.
- Cleaning Reissues and thinking about upgrading the RCM because there are
still ticks and pops with the actual unit: Forget it.
Reissues are bad compared to the vinyl from the 70's to 1995 (for example),
with some exceptions, but in general it is the way it is... It has to do with soft
vinyl, bad quality control, wrong cooling processes and so on. Buried Know
H9871240ow.
And when you have luck and get a silent reissue, I bet, it sounds worse than the
original because the remaster was done mediocre (Today money counts, not
perfection).
Second Hand Records from the former years can be in top optical condition, no
scratches and when you play it, you will have noise. This is mainly based on the
fact, that a previous owner used a wrong aligned cart/Arm or too much VTF.
Then the grooves are damaged. Best you can do, throw it away (I do it). Short
pain, but then it is done.
When a record is not silent after 2 cleaning processes with a point nozzle and a
cleaning fluid, then there are normally grooves damaged or the vinyl has
problems, years ago it was very common to use alcohol in cleaning fluids, when
done wrong, the groove side walls got dry, inflexible and the only chance to
enjoy them is a cart with a round needle :-)
Or you go the way with short pain....500 top records are better than 3000 noisy
ones. Life is too short for that

Thank you both. Incredibly helpful. I'll borrow my uncle's 4 point system fluids and try to fully experience what you both are saying. I have been adhering to Sytax's "throw it away" (or return for credit at Amoeba) plan for the last few years. I think my collection has shrunk for sure.

Syntax,
I agree with almost everything you say there and respect your opinions. They are opinions though, you do realize that right? Opinions are expressed as scientific fact in these forums almost constantly. Have you for example had extensive experience with the Audio Desk so you can objectively state that it is always inferior to a Loricraft? I've heard from several people who have used both extensively and their answer to that is not so definitive. A filthy moldy record definitely seems to benefit from enzymatic or multi-step chemical cleaners. According to several whose opinions I also respect the average record may actually come out better on the Audio Desk. Anything this subjective will never have a definitive answer. If you clean a record for two hours is it really any cleaner than it was after five minutes? Where do we reach the point of overkill and just start wasting time? I don't know for sure either but I do know there's not a lot of time in my life for overkill.

Where do we reach the point of overkill and just start wasting time?

Definitely worth thinking about.
All discussions can be reduced to something simple:
The cleaning fluid has the task to make any kind of dirt soft. When it is soft enough, it can be removed. Of course ultrasonics can help here, or a towel....

The real task (and secret - or background - of ANY Design) is the way to REMOVE it.
When you have a drink with a Straw and a given sucking power you know, the more narrow the Straw is, the higher is the speed through it. And you have also the most power in this diameter when it is narrow.
The bigger (wider) the Straw is, the more power you will loose. Motors from RCM's are not rated in HP :-)
Here we have the most powerful ability to get something out of the groove.

Another important fact is, what happens after the removal?
The area from a point nozzle design is after the sucking process completely dry.
Any other Designs have another kind of "lips, brushes, fans" behind the vacuum. When that one is wet (happens very fast, too much fluid or a few records in a row) then there will stay some wetness after the vacuuming. This fluid will dry after some time and when you play it again, you will have surface noise again. There is no way out. VPI units (or similar designs) are a good example for that.
The Audiodesk uses the same cleaning fluid again and again, there are filters, but forget them after a while. There are brushes, but forget them after a while .... It is a nice toy, great for Audiophiles who can live with something which saves time, is comfortable, in a way it is "modern High Tech" and that is ok.

I know record dealers who tried it and no one used them for a longer time. Most have Loricrafts or when they can afford it, a Keith Monks.
All Designs have some strengths, because they are all better than doing nothing, but when you think about what is responsible for what and how it is solved (and the reliability after longer time) it is obvious, that you will find different opinions.
This is ok and absolutely normal. When there are various opinions, every reader can try to find the right one for himself. The world is loaded with Jaguar Drivers, but when I can afford only one car because I buy it and have to use it for 10+ years, my choice is Mercedes.