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Audio Desk Record Cleaner-Anyone buy one yet

I may never get to own one of these due to the price, but if I could I would say that it may the best upgrade to any analog system. I had the opportunity recently to have a couple of records cleaned on one. The two Lp's I had cleaned are one of many copies I have purchased thru the years in search of a good clean copy. The title is the 2 disk set "Renaissance Live at Carnegie Hall". I took one of my copies over in hopes that I would get back that sought after clean copy. However I will preface my comments about the Audio Desk with the cold hard fact that once a record reaches a level of surface noise and contamination, nothing can make it new again. However once the Audio Desk completed it's 8 minute process, the improvements were immediately evident. First thing to take notice of, absolutely the cleanest and shiniest black vinyl I think I have ever seen. The LP's looked better than new under light. But the real test is listening. As I have listened to the title many many times from my first copy back in the 70's and never on LP, CD or Imported CD have I heard the detail of the recording. On disk #1 the cleanest of the two the LP was much cleaner than I have been able to obtain on my VPI 16.5 using Walker 4 Step, Mobile Fidelity Enzime, L'Art Du son, and various other solutions. My guess is the Audio Desk cleaned an additional 50-70% of the surface noise from the album. The depth of information in the Annie Haslam's Vocals, the clarity of the Bass that I had written off as muddled recording failure was now revealing the individual notes each taking their own space in the music field. The orchestra was fully present and not crowded together as before. Now on to disk 2, the disappointment of permanantly damaged grooves was inescapable. However the music that came thru had much more information to re-write the recall of this recording burned in my memory from previous listening sessions. On Scherazade with the verbal introduction to the song, I heard instruments and voices in nthe back ground that I had never noticed before. Little plucks of strings and puffs on brass as the orchestra was making sure they were ready to perform. I will say that an additional cleaning of 20-30 percent of this album was still obvious but to my disappointment, the Audio Desk is not a miracle worker, but a pretty damn good magician. I think 3800.00 is a lot of money for just about anything these days, but is it worth the 3800.00? Yes if you value and love your record collection. I have an LP12 with many upgrades and Lyra Kleos Cartridge. This record cleaner is just 800.00 more than the cartridge and when I put the two in perspective they both can bring a much higher level of performance to your turntable. Unfortunatly you need both and I sadley can only afford one. The financial curse of audiophilia continues....
128x128theo
sonofjim
557 posts
 
Syntax,
I agree with almost everything you say there and respect your opinions. They are opinions though, you do realize that right? Opinions are expressed as scientific fact in these forums almost constantly. Have you for example had extensive experience with the Audio Desk so you can objectively state that it is always inferior to a Loricraft? I've heard from several people who have used both extensively and their answer to that is not so definitive. A filthy moldy record definitely seems to benefit from enzymatic or multi-step chemical cleaners. According to several whose opinions I also respect the average record may actually come out better on the Audio Desk. Anything this subjective will never have a definitive answer. If you clean a record for two hours is it really any cleaner than it was after five minutes? Where do we reach the point of overkill and just start wasting time? I don't know for sure either but I do know there's not a lot of time in my life for overkill.
syntax's avatar
syntax
2,193 posts
 
Where do we reach the point of overkill and just start wasting time?

Definitely worth thinking about.
All discussions can be reduced to something simple:
The cleaning fluid has the task to make any kind of dirt soft. When it is soft enough, it can be removed. Of course ultrasonics can help here, or a towel....

The real task (and secret - or background - of ANY Design) is the way to REMOVE it.
When you have a drink with a Straw and a given sucking power you know, the more narrow the Straw is, the higher is the speed through it. And you have also the most power in this diameter when it is narrow.
The bigger (wider) the Straw is, the more power you will loose. Motors from RCM's are not rated in HP :-)
Here we have the most powerful ability to get something out of the groove.

Another important fact is, what happens after the removal?
The area from a point nozzle design is after the sucking process completely dry.
Any other Designs have another kind of "lips, brushes, fans" behind the vacuum. When that one is wet (happens very fast, too much fluid or a few records in a row) then there will stay some wetness after the vacuuming. This fluid will dry after some time and when you play it again, you will have surface noise again. There is no way out. VPI units (or similar designs) are a good example for that.
The Audiodesk uses the same cleaning fluid again and again, there are filters, but forget them after a while. There are brushes, but forget them after a while .... It is a nice toy, great for Audiophiles who can live with something which saves time, is comfortable, in a way it is "modern High Tech" and that is ok.

I know record dealers who tried it and no one used them for a longer time. Most have Loricrafts or when they can afford it, a Keith Monks.
All Designs have some strengths, because they are all better than doing nothing, but when you think about what is responsible for what and how it is solved (and the reliability after longer time) it is obvious, that you will find different opinions.
This is ok and absolutely normal. When there are various opinions, every reader can try to find the right one for himself. The world is loaded with Jaguar Drivers, but when I can afford only one car because I buy it and have to use it for 10+ years, my choice is Mercedes.
tbg
5,263 posts
 
Syntax, like Sonofjim, I don't agree with many of your opinions. I got a Vinyl Cleaner about two years ago and directly compared it with my special VPI with a Delgrin tube with the Walker Prelude four step cleaning solutions. I played VPI cleaned records and then recleaned them with the Vinyl Cleaner. There was no question that the recleaning improved the sound. Later I was to discover that it worked both ways. Using both machines in a second recleaning was best. Of course for me this is just too much!

My Vinyl Cleaner stopped rotating records after about 300 records. I returned it. But I missed it greatly. Devoting about twenty minutes per album with the VPI even with the one time around vacuuming with the Delrin tube was so off putting that I largely stopped cleaning.

After hearing that the reliability of the Vinyl Cleaner had improved, I bought another. It is still working well after about 200 cleanings.

I should mention that my USB microscope shows no difference in the grooves of albums cleaned with the VPI or the Vinyl Cleaner.

Any cleaner other than the Audio Desk Vinyl Cleaner is just too much of a pain for no better cleaning.
mikelavigne
2,199 posts
 
i own both types of machines. you can make a good case for either as the 'only' one; or make a strong case to 'need' both types.

i made the same case on another thread that Norm makes about the fact that either machine likely improves on the other depending on the sequence. a second re-cleaning helps by either machine.

and i respect Syntax's point that clean water is better than re-used filtered water....unless it isn't. and OTOH flipping a clean Lp over and laying it on the 'less that perfectly clean' platter also introduces a point of contamination.

anyone who is putting enough passion and effort in cleaning Lps to be involved in this thread has already got clean records.

who has the cleanest?

:-)
dougdeacon
3,338 posts
 
anyone who is putting enough passion and effort in cleaning Lps to be involved in this thread has already got clean records.

who has the cleanest?

:-)
Not me!

I've got about 2500 still awaiting their first cleaning. Any volunteers? :-D
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